To Zedine - continuation to your final reply - II
Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jan 7, 2007 at 23:36
Continuation to your 'final reply':
You say: "One should know in what context certain verses are revealed."
That is blasphemy Mr. Zedine! Every verse of the Koran stands on its own. They are god's words. How can they have a context. Because what you are saying is if you do not know the context of these verses you cannot understand what they mean whereas the Koran states several times that it is clear book easy to understand, nowhere is it stated that you must look for contexts. And another question how do you know which verses have a context. Now read this five-verse chapter:111. 001-005
What sense can you make from this chapter. Will it make any sense at all to one who does not know that Abu Lahab was known as Father of the Flame. And what message is this whole chapter, devoted to Abu Lahab and his wife, trying to convey. God himself cursing two human beings for no particular reason, that is the message that comes across. What is the unwary reader to make of this chapter unless he hears the story of this family persecuting the Prophet. It would then make some "sense".
Surely Mr.Zedine you can see that verse 34 has nothing to do with verse 32 rather its context is verse 33. You simply have not answered the charge that you have mangled, with intent to mislead, a sentence to make it appear as though the Koran is sending a very positive message to all mankind when the message is meant specifically and purely for the Jews. That whole explanation of yours is incoherent
You say: "Well, Please read the chapter below then you will understand why God hasGiven permission to fight in self defence, while you are defending yourselves against. The most Barbaric and ruthless people who bury alive the Girl children, who burn.People alive, who rape women and killed them, Un-imaginable brutality. What your General will order you, He will order you to kill them. For justice and peace and only in Self defence fighting is allowed."
Permission only to fight in self-defence? Apart from the battles of Uhud and the Ditch can you name any other of the 70 odd battles during the Prophet's time which were defensive. Why do you make a claim which goes totally against all the historical evidence. And yet you say "There is no question of deliberately being deceitful."
Who burn people alive? What does Allah promise to do to any one who dares to join a name with his. Bring them back to life on the day of judgement and burn them for ever, reconstructing their skin over and over again for ever. Would you consider that unimaginable brutality?
"...and only in Self defence fighting is allowed."? Do I need to repeat how almost all the Prophet's battles were offensive not defensive?
You say about only self-defence being allowed: "If any one read Quran thoroughly they can very well know it." What seems obvious is you have not read your Koran. Let me show you why.009.038009.029002.216008.012
Does not 8:12-13 say it all Mr. Zedine. Merely for contending (Pikthal says opposing) against Allah and his Messenger Allah willl terrorise you and asks believers to slaughter them. Sure for believers as long as there are unbelievers who do not grovel in front of their god they are being aggressive and if you slaughtter them you are only defending yourself! That is what those verses are telling you Mr. Zedine.
Mr. Zedine I invite you to search for the contexts of these verses and show me their defensive nature. The Koran is a clear book easy to understand. Why do so many people end up with the wrong interpretation despite Allah's best effort with his last revelation. Now that he has painted himself into a corner by proclaiming that there will be no other revelation how to correct the misconceptions that have arisen about the Koran?
You say: "But Prophet Mohammed has set many examples of pity and mercy for even his worst enemies and adversaries, he was kind and just towards all."
Was what was done to Kinana an example of pity and mercy. Was what was done to Asma Bint Marwan and Kaf Bin Ashraf an example of pity and mercy. Was he being kind and just when he had a sleeing woman and an old man killed for just criticising him?
You say: "Read the history of the early converts to Islam, and every heart would melt at the sight of the brutal treatment of innocent Muslim men and women"
You seem a very kind and gentle person Mr. Zedine since your heart melted on reading about the brutal treatment of innocent MUSLIM men and women. So read your Sira about how the NON-MUSLIM Banu Quraiza was slaughtered, his NON-MUSLIM critics were killed, how the JEW Kinana was brutalised before being killed and then tell the readers whether your heart also melted.
Your response is eagerly awaited.
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. "008.013 This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (MR. ZEDINE IS THIS NOT A CLEAR CALL TO FIGHT ANY WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND NOT JUST WHEN THE UNBELIEVERS ATTACK. WHERE IS YOUR CLAIM OF SELF DEFENCE HERE)
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. 009.039 Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.
YUSUFALI: Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he! No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains! Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame! His wife shall carry the (crackling)wood - As fuel!- A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck
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