Is the Islam of Muhammad peaceful and peaceloving? what do the Islamic sources say Zedine?
Submitted by Lactantius Jr. (United Kingdom), Jan 9, 2007 at 18:35
I'm so disappointed with your responses to me titled ‘Reply (1) to your several questions' and ‘Here is my final reply to your questions.' Your responses totalling 12,313 words, which completely ignore my question about the reason(s) for your partial quotation of Surah 5:32-33, and I ask you again Zedine, why did you do it? Were you being deliberately mendacious and duplicitous? seeking to show the Qur'an in a much better light than quoting all the words would show it?
I have asked you to support your assertion that "Islam is the most peaceful religion" and that "a real Muslim cannot be a terrorist at all," asking you to support your assertions from Islam's most authoritative documents, the Qur'an, the Sahi Hadith, the Sirat and Ta'rikh literature. Instead, you have quoted a disparate collection of quotations from such luminaries as, Professor Rama Krishna, Prof Hurgronje, George Bernard Shaw, Sir Charles Edward Archibald Hamilton, Prof Massignon, Thomas Carlyle, Rene Descartes, Adolf Hitler!!! Reverend Bosworth Smith, Robert Priffault, Jules Masserman, Michael H.Hart, James Gavin, William McNeill, John William Draper, R.V.C.Bodley, Diwan Chand Sharma, DeLacy O'Leary, Edward Gibbon, Mahatma Ghandi, Pandit Gyanadra Dev Sharma Shastri, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all!!! about Muhammad, Islam, and Arab culture claimed to be shaped by the Islam of Muhammad. ("Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all," being used in British English, as a whimsical way of referring to a list of names).
The list of luminaries Adolf Hitler!!! included, are not authoritative or defining for Islam, only Muhammad and his Islam is, his Islam being recorded in the Qur'an, the Sahi Hadith, the Sirat and Ta'rikh literature, and your Qur'anic citations, 68:4;33;21;94;4;48;28;21;10;34;28 and 74:1-7 have nothing to do with your assertions about "Islam being the most peaceful religion," or your claim that "a real Muslim cannot be a terrorist at all," instead dealing with Muhammad being portrayed as the exemplar, 'the model for all mankind,' so will you now please source your claims in Islam's most authoritative texts?
Although it would be easy to do, I have told you I have no wish to compile a list of negative/critical comments about Islam, these not being authoritative or defining for Islam, instead wanting to deal with what Muhammad says about Muhammad, and what the Qur'an and Sahi Hadith etc.say about Islam, believing them to have more authority than the luminaries you quote fulsomely praising Muhammad and Islam, I will however, give some quotes which have a different flavour to yours Zedine, with very unpleasant outcomes for non-Muslims, all made by Muslims, including that exemplary Muslim, Ayatollah ("word of Allah") Ruhallah Khomeini:-
"Those who are against killing have no place in Islam. Our prophet killed with his own blessed hands. Our Imam Ali killed more than 700 on a single day. If the survival of the Faith requires the shedding of blood, we are there to perform our duty."
Ayatollah ("Word of Allah") Sadeq Khalkhali. Islamic judge. Cited in "Holy Terror" Amir Taheri, Sphere Books Limited, London 1987, page 36
"Islam is not Christianity----------------Islam is the religion of agitation, revolution, blood, liberation and martyrdom."
Shaikh Morteza Motahari "Nehzat Islami dar Sadsal Akhir (Islamic Movements in the Last One Hunderd Years" Tehran, 1979, page 83
"Islam Is Not A Religion of Pacifists"
"There are two kinds of war in Islam. One is called Jihad (Holy War), which means the conquest of (other) countries in accordance with certain conditions. The other (type) is war to preserve the independence of the (Muslim) country and the repulsion of foreigners. Jihad or Holy War, which is for the conquest of (other) countries and kingdoms, becomes incumbent after the formation of the Islamic state in the presence of the Imam or in accordance with his command. Then Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of (other) countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.
But world public opinion should know that Islamic conquest is not the same as conquests made by other rulers of the world. The latter want to conquer the world for their own personal profit, whereas Islam's conquest is aimed at serving the interests of the globe as a whole. (Non Islamic) conquerors want to rule the world so they can spread through it every injustice and sexual indecency , whereas Islam wants to conquer the world in order to promote spiritual values, and to prepare mankind for justice and divine rule .
(Non-Islamic) conquerors sacrifice the lives and possessions of the people to their own leisure and pleasure. But Islam does not allow its leaders and generals to enjoy themselves or to have a moments leisure; in this way the lives and property of people can be protected and the bases of injustice destroyed in the world.
Islam's holy war is a struggle against idolatry, sexual deviation, plunder, repression and cruelty. The war waged by (non-Islamic) conquerors, however, aims at promoting lust and animal pleasures. They care not if whole countries are wiped out and many families left homeless. But those who study Islamic holy war will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under light celestial law……………
Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those (who say this) are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the (unbelievers)? Islam says: Kill them the non-Muslims, put them to the sword and scatter (their armies). Does this mean sitting back until (non Muslims) overcome us? Islam says kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender (to the enemy)? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword!People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors!
There are hundreds of other (Qur'anic) psalms and Hadiths (sayings of the Prophet) urging Muslims to value war and fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.
Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini "Kashf al-Asrar" (Key to the Secrets) Originally published in Qom in 1942, reprinted in Tehran in 1980 and 1983
"Today many of us are misled into believing that in our times, jihad of the sword is not warranted. Most definitely physical jihad is, and will be needed to a large extent……….. besides the jihad of the pen and tongue, the Muslim ummah cannot be exempted from physical jihad. No learned person and no true Muslim can deny the benefits, fruits and blessings of physical jihad for the course of Allah."
Mufti Zubair Dudha, Dewsbury born (Dewsbury being in the West Riding of Yorkshire, Northern England, United Kingdom)
"Dewsbury-born mufti hates British way of life." TIMESONLINE 20thJuly 2005
‘Islam Faith and Power'
Abid Ullah Jan
Muslim Weekly 8th.July 2005 that's right, the day after the London bombings which killed 52 people besides the 4 jihadis and injured over 700.
The gist of the article is that Muslims should strive to gain political and military power over non-Muslims, that warfare is obligatory for all Muslims, and that the Islamic state, Islam and Sharia should be established throughout the world. All is supported with quotations from the Qur'an. It concludes with a veiled threat to Britain. The bombings the previous day were a perfect illustration of what Jan was advocating, and the editor evidently felt no need to withdraw the article or to apologise for it. His newspaper is widely read and distributed across the UK.
I now quote several passages from the Qur'an, quoting 2:191;9:5;48:20;8:65;8:12;9:29;9:73;8:15-16 and 3:118-120
The online Qur'an browser I use being at http://www.quranbrowser.com/ and which displays English renderings of the Qur'anic Arabic by 10 different translators, together with transliterated Arabic, but whichever they are read in, they sure aint peaceful Zedine, and in them I have exchanged "Infidel" for "Muslim," "Democracy" for "Islam" and so on. Doing this, clearly demonstrates the force of the original text, showing just what the Qur'an commands of a Muslim, who seeks to be obedient to Allah, and to the words and deeds of Muhammad.
"And slay Muslims wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out………such is the reward of those who suppress democracy."
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ; but if they repent (accept reason) and establish regular elections and practice regular charity then open the way for them; for The Law is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
"… Rouse the believers in democracy to the fight, if there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred; if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Muslims; for these are a people without understanding."
"Fight those who believe not Parliament nor the constitution, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by parliament or it's ministers, nor acknowledge democracy and reason, even if they are good Muslims, until they pay the Poll Tax with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
"Strive against the Muslims. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."
"O ye who believe in democracy! when ye meet the Muslims in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Parliament, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!"
Surah 8: 15-16
Surah 3: 118-120
How do you reconcile these and similar Qur'anic Surah with your assertion Zedine, that "Islam is the most peaceful religion" and that "a real Muslim cannot be a terrorist at all?"
Please do let me have your response sourced from within Islam's "title-deeds," that is its most authoritative documents, the Qur'an and Sahi Hadith etc. and if you are unable to do this yourself Zedine, please "phone a friend" or ask your imam.
I'm still counting on you Zedine, because I can't find clear statements in the Islamic "title-deeds" portraying Islam as a peaceful, peaceloving religion, able to peacefully co-exist with those of different religion and culture, and throughout secular Western democracies, Islamic violence and the threat of violence is creating much fear and unease, the integration of Muslims into Western societies being a very important and difficult topic, impacting Western democratic societies in a way without parallel with other immigrant populations, and on 13th.December 2006, "A Proposed Charter of Muslim Understanding" was presented to the European Parliament, dealing with how a liberal democratic society can define and develop a positive relationship with the Muslim communities living in its midst? and how could or should the Muslim community itself deal with its violent members?
It is posted at http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Terrorism/muslim_charter.htm and I invite your comments on it Zedine.
With kind regards and best wishes
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