3 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Response to Altamash

Reader comment on item: A Christian Boom
in response to reader comment: in reply to shinto, and everyone may read it

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Sep 25, 2006 at 22:55

"yes i m reading Qur an and understand better then u. first u should understand the way of God. he never allows his people to sit and watch those people who lie in the name of God whom the book was revealed and yet they deviated from truth. they permitted what was forbidden by your God. and they forbid what was allowed them and attribute it to God."

How is what the Bible says forbidden? Please, justify the divinity of the Qu'ran.

"listen your God is not blind God who sees but cant reply to those who write the book with their own hand and then say it's from God. yeah God surely encourages his beliver to fight against such people. and read the verse carefully. it doesnt say to kill the people of book it says to fight with them for truth to fight them for their wrong works."

That's why your book has verses telling them to spread the sword?

"yes Qur an says dont make jews and christian your friend.coz they are friend of each other"

Because our God does not ask us to kill each other.

"it does'nt mean that they will know something which is not known by us. what will they say to us when v muslims stands with truth when v know the truth which God has revealed to the final prophet. and the truth of God is far more superior than your intellectual lie."

What does your 'v's mean? Intellectual lie? Sigh, prove the divinity of Muhammed. I've already shown evidences of the divinity of the Bible, whereas all you give me is a book whose founder was ONE man.

"and what God says is truth and it is truth that jews and christians will never think good for us untill v follow them. rem coz they will never think good for muslims. not coz they know truth."

That's why you kill and torture our missionaries and converts?

"let me give you an example: when jews attack lebanon and killed 1100 innocent muslim coz ther 2 soldiers were kidnapped (not killed) and what bush replied "they had right to attack for defence"

Irrelevant, completely strawman saying that Bush is the model Christian. God did not tell Bush to attack.

"how just is it that you killed 1100 innocent muslims for your two kidnaped soldiers ( and God know alone were they really kidnapped). this is what which means friends of each other ."

See above.

"what truth are you christians talking about "bible"? you want v muslims to believe in bible as Gods word?"

I want everyone to believe in God's Word, the Bible.

"let me tell you that islam is the only non christian faith which makes an article to believe in jesus christ . v believe that he was a christ . v believe that he was born without father. and v believe he is one of the mightiest prophet of God and v believe in injeel which was revealed to him and present bible is the corrupted form of injeel. and every prophet brought the same basic faith that is la ila ha illallah"

Wrong, again, why do you Muslims keep excluding the prophets. There is the same pattern of your debates. How is the Bible corrupted? Again, a plausible skeptism but lacks evidence despite the amount of prophetic/archaelogical evidences.

"that there is only one God concept of tawheed (belive in one God without any image). same was brought by moses jesus etc and all other prophets and later on the followers of all prophets got deviated and prophet muhammed (s a w) is the last prophet with a last revelation. and islam is the complet ereligion From God and God has granted the security of Qur an and islam . coz its the last revelation and prophet (s a w) is the last prophet of god no new prophet will come and no new revelation will come and no new teaching will come and no new upgrade will be done by God. that why God has granted the security of islam and Qur and to be there between mankind for guidance and to distinguish between right and wrong."

Again, Jesus is God. Please, read my other posts to save time from me having to re-explain the Triune and the prophets. This last revelation was seen only by Muhammed I believe so that means it could've been made up. Remember, Muhammed was influenced by Jews and Christians.

"and all other book has been changed by its followers and God has not granted them security coz previous revelation was not the final revelation and previous prophet were not the final prophet."

You have no clue about the history of the Bible do you? Let's agree upon an absolute okay?

Absolute- The original words of God written down by the prophets were 'untainted'.

Fact- The Bible was re-copied (not rewritten) by many scholars/scribes.

Assumption- If somewhere on the line, some followers rewrote the actual words then the final copies would be much different from each other AND the originals.

Fact- The Dead Sea Scrolls has exploded this myth and Islam doctrine of 'corruption in the Bible'.

"Sexual intercourse between two persons who are too closely related." (New Collins Dictionary). For example, between father and daughter, son and mother, father-in-law and daughter-in-law, brother and sister, etc. INCEST IN GOD'S BOOK (?) BETWEEN A FATHER AND HIS DAUGHTERS: (a) "That night they (both the daughters of Lot) gave him (their father Lot) wine to drink and the older daughter had INTERCOURSE with him ... "The next day the older daughter said to her sister, I slept with him last night. now let's get him drunk again tonight, and you sleep with him. Then each of us will have a child by our father. So that night they got him drunk and the younger daughter had INTERCOURSE with him ... "In this way both of Lot's daughters became PREGNANT by their father. " GENESIS 19:33-35 (From the "Good News Bible- In Today's English"). In the older Versions, like the King James and the Roman Catholic Versions, "SEXUAL INTERCOURSE" is vaguely described as "COLLECTING THE SEED OF OUR FATHER." INCEST BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON: (b) "While Jacob (Israel) was living in the land, Reuben (his firstborn, his eldest son) had SEXUAL"

Now your arguments make a bit more sense, although they are easily answered. The law against incest was given to Moses which was LONG AFTER all the things you listed above.

"INTERCOURSE with Bilhah, his father's concubine. GENESIS 35:22. The older Versions of the Bible, use the word, "lay" for SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. INCEST BETWEEN FATHER-IN-LAW AND DAUGHTER-IN-LAW: (c) "When Judah saw her (Tamar, his daughter-in-law), he thought she was a prostitute, because she had covered her face. "He went over to her at the side of the road and said, "ALL RIGHT, HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE?" (He did not know that she was his daughter-in-law) {The words in parenthesis i.e. within brackets from He did not know to daughter-in-law are not in the original Hebrew manuscripts. They are the editors g loss.}"

See above.

"She said, what will you give me?" (To have sex with me) 'He answered, I WILL SEND YOU A YOUNG GOAT FROM MY FLOCK "She said, "All right, if you will give me something to keep as a pledge until you send the ,goat. ' . . He gave them (the pledges) to her. Then had INTERCOURSE, and she became pregnant GENESIS 38: 15-18 (Quoted from the "Good News Bible"). CONCUBINE and WIFE are synonymous terms in the Bible. Look for it in the index under "KETURAH" (the third wife of Abraham). Out of this incestuous relationship between a father-in-law and his daughter-in-law, twins were born, who were destined to become the great-grand-fathers of Jesus Christ see Matthew 1:3; "And Judas begat Phares and Zarah of Thamar . . . INCEST AND RAPE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER (d) " . . he took hold of her (Thamar, his sister, not to be confused with Tamar in "c" above,, and said unto her, Come lie with me (have sex with me), my sister. "And she answered him, Nay, my brother (Amnon, one of the sons of David, the man after God's own heart) do not force me . . . "But he would not listen to her, and since he was stronger than she was, he overpowered her and RAPED her (his sister). " 2 Samuel 13:5-14 WHOLESALE RAPE AND INCEST BETWEEN SON AND HIS MOTHERS! (e) So they set up a tent for Absalom (another son of King David) on the palace roof, and in the sight of everyone, Absalom went in and had INTERCOURSE with his father's concubines " 2 SAMUELS 16:22"

Now some of the ones here again are the same as above, but the ones in Samuel and such I'll explain now. Just because a story is written in the Bible does not make it a doctrine. The Bible exposes sin for how evil it really is. So these stories are meant to show disgust because any Christian would hate such things. And that's what God meant them to be there for, to EXPOSE sin, not ENCOURAGE.

". . . In the sight of every one" is rendered in the King James Version as "in the sight of all Israel." This is a fulfillment of God's promise to David the King:

"Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee (David) out of thine own house, and I will take THY WIVES before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor (actually thy son) and he shall lie (have sexual intercourse) with thy wives in the sight of sun (for the whole world to watch the fun).

For thou didst it secretly (with Bath-Sheba the wife of Uriah): but I will do this thing before ALL Israel, and before the sun." 2 Samuel 12:11-12

See above? Remember, God rebuked him. Showing the errors of someone before you will help you learn from their mistakes.

"You can well guess where "Penthouse" and "Playboy" got their inspiration from. Where from if not from the Book of Books?"

Irrelevant.

"For other various types of incest see LEVITICUS 18:8-18. 20:11-14 and 17-21. Concubine seems synonymous to the word wife in the Bible. Look for this reference in index under "Keturah" the third wife of Abraham."

God did not want polygamy but he overlooked its ignorance for a while.

"INCEST -this what u people says Gods word? this is the truth you are talking about? this is what u believe ? this is what you attribute to God? shame full woe to those who write book with their own hand and then say it is from Allah."

I'm sorry, but see above. Incest was permitted until after the Law of Moses. After that, any such acts were meant to be looked down upon. The reason why you hate such an act is because of Moses. Stop trying to manipulate historical chronology.

"such words dont suit in Gods book it suit in book of pornography"

Again, God forbade such acts.

"and you said that c the cases of rape in your so called Gods word, Brother rapes and commits incest with his sister— (a) Howbeit he (Amnon, one of the sons of David) would not hearken unto her this sister Tamar's voice: but, being stronger than she, forced (raped) her, and LAY (had sex) with her." 2 SAMUEL 13:14 Son commits incest and rapes his mothers wholesale! (b) "So they spread Absalom (another of the sons of David) a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom WENT IN (had intercourse) unto his father's concubines (same as "wives", see KETURAH in the index) in the sight of ISRAEL" 2 SAMUEL 16:22"

LoL. You need to work on your reading comprehension, where does it say it was 'okay.' In fact your Allah allowed rape.

"and you said "Everything from having sex with Slaves "

No, you think slavery back down was the same as today. That's not the case.

"its nowhere told in Qur an but for your kind information it is told in bible Sanctioned by God— "ye, shall take them (the slaves) as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them (the slaves) for a possession, they shall be ,your BONDMEN (slaves) for ever . . . LEVITICUS 25:46"

Sigh, slaves willingly sold themselves into slavery or they're parents did. They were freed within 7 years with provision. It's no different than an indentured servant.

"and what u quote from Genesis 16 it is not muhammed(s a w) it is bush. let me tell u that out of the world poppulation of muslims 82% muslims are non arabs. means 82% muslims r non arab and believe in muhammed (s a w)"

Bush is not an Arab...

I'll respond to the rest when I have time. I have to go.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Response to Altamash by Servant of Christ

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)