1 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Hell,heaven,God,Sin are abstract concepts which when you are expaining in real terms will falter.

Reader comment on item: A Christian Boom
in response to reader comment: Sorry late reply

Submitted by Shri devi (India), Oct 21, 2007 at 08:51

Why I am against the Hell concept is that it is only a concept a relative term invented for threatening the masses for not doing socially incorrect crimes.

Well, I suppose that we should remove all warning signs because they threaten us with things we don't want to hear. If your house was on fire, I would immediately tell you because I genuinely want to help you. I wouldn't be threatening you would I?

See here you are coming to the Biblical way of Comparison. House Fire are concrete whereas the hell is a concept which cannot be explained. It is not correct to ascertain that Bible says Hell is there so hell is there.

I am telling you sorry in advance for the argument in the following sentences may hurt your religious feelings but I have to since you have started the thread with the question mark on Hinduism.( See the Heading.)

My religious feelings? Don't worry, bring your best arguments.

There cannot be any divine birth of Jesus since the birth of whole Human beings with flesh happens with the intercourse of Male and Female.

For argument sake if I am agreeing that there is Hell, Heaven ,Original Sin etc., then can you please answer the question that the people who were responsible for Christ's crucification, whether they have committed a Sin. If so where will they go? Will it be Heaven or Hell? It will be Hell naturally. Isn't it?

It depends on whether they choose forgiveness.

Jesus was a non entity for them he was against the prevailing social order of the time and some people believed that he is the King of the people and that is why he was crucified. He was crucified alongwith criminals. So the people who had committed the norms of the prevailing social justice (after proper trial) cannot be considered sinful. Imagine a good soul rebels against the existing Church and the Church punishes them. Are the churches are correct then?

Now come to the Sin Part. Jesus was crucified to wash all the Sins of mankind. Isn't it? Then those who crucified the Christ have done a good thing that they were instruments in washing the sins of the whole humankind inclusive of themselves. Isn't it? Then naturally they have to given a place in Heaven. Isn't it?

And this is where your argument fails. You believe that if a person is instrumental in fulfilling God's plan then that person automatically goes to heaven. You see that these people wanted to kill Jesus for bad reason and not good (what good reason is there to kill the Son of God?).

If the prevailing customs of the Christs' Time were having Good intentions to kill the rebels and criminals and the people who ordered the judgement,carried out the judgement were correct as per the existing norms of the society. It was not a murder in the strict sense. There was Court,Judgement and guidance for the Crucification and all were instruments in the whole event. Why God so omnipresent and omniscient cannot have avoided the crucification which is a very small thing because he created the entire universe in 7 days with all the living creatures,organisms,planets and what not? Here you are contraduicting yourself that on One side he is handling an eternal Hell and Heaven for infinite years (say trillions and trillions of years ) and on the other side he cannot handle a few people who are murderers of the Son of God. Your God is able to allot Hell or heaven eternal after analyzing each of the deeds of the Human concerned and allot him infinite eternal years in heaven or Hell. Is it not contradictory. Suppose I am human and say my age at death is 80 years. OK after agreeing that I have committed sins for the entire life of me say 80* 365*24"60*60 seconds ie

4.355472 billion sins which is finite on the assuption that I am committing a sin per second for my waking and sleeping time during birth to death. even this is finite. But your eternal Hell is infinite and can stretch to trillions trillions trillions and so on. Is your God not so cruel? But Christ's teaching that you show the other Chin for people who beat you contradicts this concept. Is it not? Christ would have given Heaven for almost all Human beings considering his compassion. So where does the church comes in between?

So I think that the concept of Heaven and Hell complicate our logical reasoning and better to avoid them instead of wasting our time on them.

Please answer to my doubts.

Your answers don't take into account biblical matters. Here's a Scripture passage for you:

5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved. (Romans 3:5-8) NIV

Each person is accountable for his actions (except those physically unable). God can make good result from evil but that doesn't make the wrongdoer righteous.

For finding out the inconsistencies in Bible see:

Why I am against the Hell concept is that it is only a concept a relative term invented for threatening the masses for not doing socially incorrect crimes.

Well, I suppose that we should remove all warning signs because they threaten us with things we don't want to hear. If your house was on fire, I would immediately tell you because I genuinely want to help you. I wouldn't be threatening you would I?

I am telling you sorry in advance for the argument in the following sentences may hurt your religious feelings but I have to since you have started the thread with the question mark on Hinduism.( See the Heading.)

My religious feelings? Don't worry, bring your best arguments.

For argument sake if I am agreeing that there is Hell, Heaven ,Original Sin etc., then can you please answer the question that the people who were responsible for Christ's crucification, whether they have committed a Sin. If so where will they go? Will it be Heaven or Hell? It will be Hell naturally. Isn't it?

It depends on whether they choose forgiveness.

Now come to the Sin Part. Jesus was crucified to wash all the Sins of mankind. Isn't it? Then those who crucified the Christ have done a good thing that they were instruments in washing the sins of the whole humankind inclusive of themselves. Isn't it? Then naturally they have to given a place in Heaven. Isn't it?

And this is where your argument fails. You believe that if a person is instrumental in fulfilling God's plan then that person automatically goes to heaven. You see that these people wanted to kill Jesus for bad reason and not good (what good reason is there to kill the Son of God?).

So I think that the concept of Heaven and Hell complicate our logical reasoning and better to avoid them instead of wasting our time on them.

Please answer to my doubts.

Your answers don't take into account biblical matters. Here's a Scripture passage for you:

5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved. (Romans 3:5-8) NIV

Each person is accountable for his actions (except those physically unable). God can make good result from evil but that doesn't make the wrongdoer righteous.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/flaws.html

The problem is that you are interleaving the absolute concepts with the actualities and so it errors.

regards,

Shri devi.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Hell,heaven,God,Sin are abstract concepts which when you are expaining in real terms will falter. by Shri devi

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)