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Trinity Verses

Reader comment on item: A Christian Boom
in response to reader comment: Servant of Christ

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Dec 13, 2006 at 17:51

I know. John, son of Zebedee and the John the Baptist. However, John of Patmos could be either Apostle John or someone else. Can you show me how Revelation differs from the Old Testament? All those OT 'end of time' prophecies are in agreement in this book.

Does he where because I can't find one verse in the Old Testament which says that he is three in One. When you show me the verses make sure they not from the Christian Bible (New Testament).

I did not lie when I said that the Deut. 6:4 uses the Hebrew word echad. Jesus even said that believers were to be baptized in the name of him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

Plurality of YHWH:

The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"

The person speaking is the Angel of the Lord (who is believed to be Jesus pre-incarnate). Now, this verse uses confusing language. However, if the first 'LORD' which is the Son (or Angel of the Lord) says that the Father rebukes you, then it makes much more sense. A similar passage is this:

Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.

Here are some plural pronouns used:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Why is it that God used the word 'us' rather than 'me'? Some more convincing verses:

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

See? In the beginning, there was the Spirit of God, from the very beginning.

Where can I go from your Spirit

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent; he is everywhere. Only God has this characteristic.

Yet they rebelled
and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy
and he himself fought against them.

11 Then his people recalled the days of old,
the days of Moses and his people—
where is he who brought them through the sea,
with the shepherd of his flock?
Where is he who set
his Holy Spirit among them,

and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts-

Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took of the Spirit that was on him and put the Spirit on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied, but they did not do so again.

Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him.

The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.

So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth.

"Look," they said, "we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the LORD has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley."
"No," Elisha replied, "do not send them."

"Come near me and listen to this:
"From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there."
And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,
with his Spirit.

Then the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet. He spoke to me and said: "Go, shut yourself inside your house.

But as for me, I am filled with power,
with the Spirit of the LORD,
and with justice and might,
to declare to Jacob his transgression,
to Israel his sin.

The Spirit can endow people with knowledge, skill, and etc. The Holy Spirit gives prophecies. The New Testament Holy Spirit does the same things, if you have ever read Acts 2 you would see that. The Holy Spirit cannot be just a mere angel such as Gabriel (for angels aren't omnipresent

Here are some verses about the Messiah. I will include verses with the 'Angel of the LORD' because there is much evidence pointing to this entity being the pre-incarnate Son.

Proverbs 30:4-

Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?
Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and the name of his son?
Tell me if you know!

Now, we both know that no one has seen the face of God the Father. For it is written:

But," he [God] said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

Yet in the Bible there are many instances where people have seen God. This isn't a contradiction, they've just seen the other member of the Godhead, the Son.

The man asked him, "What is your name?"
"Jacob," he answered.

28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless.

God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.

Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

David looked up and saw the angel of the LORD standing between heaven and earth, with a drawn sword in his hand extended over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell facedown

The angel of the LORD came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. 12 When the angel of the LORD appeared to Gideon, he said, "The LORD is with you, mighty warrior."

13 "But sir," Gideon replied, "if the LORD is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our fathers told us about when they said, 'Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?' But now the LORD has abandoned us and put us into the hand of Midian."

14 The LORD turned to him and said, "Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian's hand. Am I not sending you?"

15 "But Lord , " Gideon asked, "how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family."

16 The LORD answered, "I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites together."

17 Gideon replied, "If now I have found favor in your eyes, give me a sign that it is really you talking to me. 18 Please do not go away until I come back and bring my offering and set it before you."
And the LORD said, "I will wait until you return."

So the Angel is also called YHWH in this part of Scripture. Let's keep reading.

God heard Manoah, and the angel of God came again to the woman while she was out in the field; but her husband Manoah was not with her. 10 The woman hurried to tell her husband, "He's here! The man who appeared to me the other day!"

11 Manoah got up and followed his wife. When he came to the man, he said, "Are you the one who talked to my wife?"
"I am," he said.

12 So Manoah asked him, "When your words are fulfilled, what is to be the rule for the boy's life and work?"

13 The angel of the LORD answered, "Your wife must do all that I have told her. 14 She must not eat anything that comes from the grapevine, nor drink any wine or other fermented drink nor eat anything unclean. She must do everything I have commanded her."

15 Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, "We would like you to stay until we prepare a young goat for you."

16 The angel of the LORD replied, "Even though you detain me, I will not eat any of your food. But if you prepare a burnt offering, offer it to the LORD." (Manoah did not realize that it was the angel of the LORD.)

17 Then Manoah inquired of the angel of the LORD, "What is your name, so that we may honor you when your word comes true?"

18 He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding. " 19 Then Manoah took a young goat, together with the grain offering, and sacrificed it on a rock to the LORD. And the LORD did an amazing thing while Manoah and his wife watched: 20 As the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven, the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame. Seeing this, Manoah and his wife fell with their faces to the ground. 21 When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD.

22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

The parents of Samson realized that this wasn't just an ordinary angel, this was THE Angel of God. They knew that this Angel was the Son. At first they did not realize it but later it says that they understood and were terrified because they knew that he was God.

May God Bless You All

(Judges 13:9-22 NIV) emphasis added
(Judges 6:12-17 NIV) emphasis added
. (1 Chronicles 21:16 NIV) emphasis added
(Exodus 24:9-11 NIV) emphasis added
(Exodus 6:2-3 NIV) emphasis added
(Genesis 17:1 NIV) emphasis added
(Genesis 32:27-30 NIV) emphasis added
(Exodus 33:20 NIV) emphasis added
(NIV) emphasis added
(Micah 3:8 NIV) emphasis added
(Ezekiel 3:24 NIV) emphasis added
(Isaiah 48:16 NIV) emphasis added
(2 King 2:16 NIV) emphasis added
(1 Samuel 19:23 NIV) emphasis added
(1 Samuel 10:6 NIV) emphasis added
(Judges 6:34 NIV) emphasis added
(Numbers 11:25 NIV) emphasis added
(Exodus 35:31 NIV) emphasis added
(Isaiah 63:10-11 NIV) emphasis added
(Psalm 139:7-10 NIV) emphasis added
Where can I flee from your presence?
(Genesis 1:2 NIV) emphasis added
(Isaiah 6:8 NIV) emphasis added
(Genesis 3:22 NIV) emphasis added
(Genesis 1:26 NIV) emphasis added
(Genesis 19:24 NIV) emphasis added
(Zechariah 3:2 NIV) emphasis added

There were three different John's not one but three.


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