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Servant of christ

Reader comment on item: A Christian Boom
in response to reader comment: Can't Think of a Name

Submitted by John of Science (United Kingdom), Mar 8, 2007 at 09:26

Spare me the those parts please. I am Chinese myself and I hear of all these 'artifacts' dating to 5000 B.C. My question is how were they dated? The 4 dynasties of Egypt, how do we know they are whatever B.C.? But remember, the Flood dating is still uncertain.

Because they are examined very carefully and probably even carbon dating testing. So you agree with me that the flood story is just a myth?

The Hebrew form of writing is a chronological view from the distance and then a great focus in detail. That is why Genesis 1 talks about the creation in 7 days and Genesis 2 goes to the sixth day and gives us great detail how man was created. The above statement you made ignores the Hebrew writing style.

Herr is an article I found:

"Creationists call us to believe the Biblical creation story as a literal account of historical events. However, Genesis contains two distinctly different creation accounts. Which creation story are they calling us to "literally" believe?

For generations, serious students of Scripture have noted stark divisions and variations in the age of the Hebrew, its style and language within Genesis. As we have it now, Genesis is actually a composite of three written primary sources, each with its own character, favorite words and distinctly different names for God. Such differences all but evaporate when translated into English, but they are clear in the ancient Hebrew text.

The first creation account, Genesis. 1:1 to Genesis. 2:4a, was written during or after the Jews' Babylonian captivity. This fully developed story explains creation in terms of the ancient near eastern world view of its time. A watery chaos is divided by the dome (firmament) of the sky. The waters under the dome are gathered and land appears. Lights are affixed in the dome. All living things are created. The story pictures God building the cosmos as a supporting ecosystem for humanity. Finally, humanity, both male and female, is created, and God rests.

The second Creation story, Genesis 2:4b to 2:25, found its written form several centuries before the Genesis. 1:1 story. This text is a less developed and much older story. It was probably passed down for generations around the camp fires of desert dwellers before being written. It begins by describing a desert landscape, no plants or herbs, no rain; only a mist arises out of the earth. Then the Lord God forms man of the dust of the ground, creates an oasis-like Garden of Eden to support the "man whom he had formed." In this story, God creates animal life while trying to provide the man "a helper fit for him." None being found, God takes a rib from the man's side and creates the first woman. These two creation stories clearly arise out of different histories and reflect different concerns with different sequences of events. Can they either or both be literal history? Obviously not.

Many serious students of Scripture consider the first eleven chapters of Genesis as non-literal, pre-history type literature, with Abram in Genesis. 12:1 being the first literal historical figure in the Bible. This understanding of Genesis causes an uproar in some quarters. In most church communities, little of this textual study has filtered down to the pew. But, in their professional training, vast numbers of clergy have been exposed to this type of literary scriptural analysis.

In my over 28 years as a pastor, I have encountered many people who are unnecessarily conflicted because they have been made to believe that, to be faithfully religious, one must take a literal view of the Genesis creation accounts. Faced with their scientific understandings going one direction and their spiritual search another, many have felt compelled to give up their spiritual search altogether. This all too common reaction is an unnecessary shame!"

So, the next time someone asks you if you believe the Biblical story of creation, just remember the correct reply: "To which Biblical creation story do you refer?"

In the first two chapters in the Bible are found two contradictory accounts of creation. There are eight points of contrast between the accounts:

Genesis 2

a. The story comes from the southern storyteller of this and other stories.

b. It was first written about 1000 BCE (before the common era, same as BC)

c. The pre-creation situation is dry desert because that's what you find in southern Israel.

d. Creation of humanity precedes the creation of vegetation and animal life.

e. Man and woman, Adam and Eve, are created in two separate acts.

f. The Creator is called "the Lord God."

g. Creation is a hands-on experience for the Lord God.

h. One important aspect of the concept of the Lord God presented in this story is fertility.

Genesis 1

a. This is the religious establishment's official authorized description of creation.b. This description was first written about 500 BCE, in or around the time the Jews returned to Jerusalem from exile in Babylon.c. The pre-creation situation is watery chaos because Babylon sat between the Tigris and Euphrates.d. Order of creation is light, sky, sea, earth, vegetation, sun and moon and stars, birds, sea creatures, land animals, and lastly, humanity.e. Creation of humanity is single act.f. The Creator is called "God."g. The Creator is present only through the commands that cause the creative acts to occur.h. One important aspect of the concept of God presented in this description is bringing order out of chaos.

5. In Genesis 6-8, there are two stories of the Great Flood, a common story in the literature of the Middle East. These stories have been intermingled in the text by the editors and redactors. The older of the stories is found in Genesis 6:8-10; 7:1-10, 16c; 8:6-12, 20-22. This story comes from 1000 BCE and may have Egyptian influence. The newer story is found in Genesis 6:9-22; 7:11-24; 8:1-5, 13-19; 9:1-17, and comes from 500 BCE with Babylonian influence. Here are six contradictions:

Old Flood Story

a. Human wickedness prompted "Yahweh" to wipe out descendants of Adam, along with animals, reptiles and birds, but not sea creatures.

b. No details are given about the size of the ark or what it's made from or how it's made.

c. Noah is instructed to take seven (7) pairs of edible animals on board, and one pair of animals that you don't eat.

d. The flood is a simple matter of too much rain falling for "forty days and forty nights," a Hebrew idiomatic phrase meaning "long enough."

e. The ark lands in an unknown location after Noah sends out a dove on three occasions to test for dry ground. All passengers disembark soon after, it seems.

f. Noah initiates a covenant-making ceremony with Yahweh. He builds an altar, kills one of every edible specie of animal and bird and cooks the meat on the altar. Yahweh is pleased and promises never again to destroy every living thing.

New Flood Story

a. "God" decided to kill everything under the heavens in which there is the "spirit of God," in response to humans filling the Earth with violence.b. Details are given of the size and shape of the ark, along with specific directions as to how it is to be built and from what it is to be made.c. Noah is instructed to take one pair of all animals on board, and is reminded to take food for all.d. The flood is a complex matter involving the undoing of creation. The dome that divided the waters above the Earth from the waters below the Earth is severely threatened when water comes down from above, and comes up from below for one hundred fifty days.e. The ark lands in the mountains of Upper Mesopotamia and Noah and his family and all the animals remain in the ark for several months before disembarking.f. God initiates a covenant-making ceremony with Noah. He gives the humans similar instructions to those he gave to the humans in the description of creation in the first chapter of Genesis. God gives the rainbow as a sign of his promise that he will never again drown every living thing.

And you weave a big circular reasoning around my reasoning. You're not using a word for word translation. I think you are using either an idea for idea or balanced translation which aren't concerned with specific details that the Hebrew language implement. The original Hebrew language uses 'men of honor' for 2 Samuel 24:9. Therefore it is not unreasonable to say that 2 Samuel refers to a group of troops with battle experience. The Hebrews were not that stupid to have such a blatant contradiction right before them...

But still that many men fighting a battle which happened 3000 thousand years ago is to much.

14 Now, behold, in my straits I have prepared for the house of the LORD a hundred thousand talents of gold, and a thousand thousand talents of silver; and of brass and iron without weight, for it is in abundance; timber also and stone have I prepared; and thou mayest add thereto. 1 chronicles 22:14According to the above verse David gives solomon; 100,000 talents of gold and 1,000,000 talents of silver. Since a talent was about 60 pounds, this would be about 3,000 tons of gold and 30,000 tons of silver. Where did they get that much gold and from? 7 and they gave for the service of the house of God of gold five thousand talents and ten thousand darics, and of silver ten thousand talents, and of brass eighteen thousand talents, and of iron a hundred thousand talents. 1 Chronicles 29:7

As usual, the reported amounts of gold, silver, and iron are grossly exaggerated. (100,000 talents of iron, for example, would be about 34 million kilograms.) Where did they get the Iron from?

It also says King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David. So when was this book written?

Here is another contradiction:

13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him: 'Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thy foes while they pursue thee? or shall there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise thee, and consider what answer I shall return to Him that sent Me.' 2 Samuel 24:13

11 So Gad came to David, and said unto him: 'Thus saith the LORD: Take which thou wilt:12 either three years of famine; or three months to be swept away before thy foes, while the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. Now therefore consider what answer I shall return to Him that sent me.' 1 Chronicles 21:12

In 2 Samuel 24:13 it says that famine will be seven years long but in 1 Chronicles 21:12 it says that the famine will be 3 years long. There is a big contradiction there.

John of Science


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