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Response to 'Is it Doctrine or Individual)

Reader comment on item: A Christian Boom
in response to reader comment: Is it the doctrine or the individual?

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Oct 9, 2006 at 21:59

You keep evading all of my answers and saying it is not the religion but the individuals. You cannot have it both ways. If it is the individuals in your religion then it is the same as my religion. You keep bringing up rape, but it is actually the Bible that premits rape of women and children:

It does not permit rape. Why do you think there is a crime against it? Rather, you're Qu'ran has NO punishment. Did you even look at the verses of the Qu'ran I gave?

You missed my point completely.

The Bible does not justify rape. However the Qu'ran does. Big difference.

Numbers 31:17-18

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

(This does not sound like peace to me. I guess it is the individual and not the religion)

You completely took this out of concept. This was the Lord's command when the Israelites defeated the Midianites. Had you read the entire chapter you would see that it was referring to the Midianites, not as a general command.

The Midianites were a people that practiced divination and allied itself with Moab against Israel. Moab even tried to get a prophet to curse the Israelites in the name of God!

They did not repent so that is why they were attacked.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV

(What happened to the woman's choice?, she may not want to be with the man that has raped her, but the Bible gives her no justice)

You keep taking individual verses out, trying to make the entire book look bad. If you read the verses before that, you would see that the girl is not guilty of sin:

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

Now, referring to your verse, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, it is obvious you did not read Exodus 22:16-17.

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

It is obvious that you did not really understand the passage. The passage said HE not SHE. The girl is not forced at all.

No punishment indeed?

The father gets to have the final say. No matter what the father decides, the man still must pay. Do you know how much money 50 shekels of silver is? It's about 100 thousand to 200 thousand dollars in modern Israel.

If this statment was in the holy Quran, womens right groups would be leading the charge to denounce it, but again I guess it is the individual and not the doctrine.

Muhammed set an example for his believers. He 'married' slave after slave after slave. It is one thing to allow polygamy, but it is another thing to violate your own command (limit of 4 am I correct?). So Muhammed lusted after so many different women.

These are only the good parts of the Bible that you ignore. So stop spreading lies about your religion. Your holy book have a lot of verses that encourage a lot of immoral things. Please learn it before attacking the holy Quran.

Again, you divert the point. You change the subject, why do you continue to refuse to answer my questions? You cannot justify your own doctrine so you point fingers? How can the Bible encourage what it says is wrong?

Please stop diverting the topic. You have not given answers, just questions.

Is Allah love? Where in the Qu'ran does it say he is? What is the greatest act of love (with Qu'ran verse)? Is there anything against rape in the Qu'ran? Why is violence encouraged as a method of conversion (not just violence but torture)? Why are so many of Muhammed's teachings so self-serving and why is he so selfish (and breaks his own teachings)?

However, Jesus commands mercy. Jesus told us what the greatest love was. God IS love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16).

Again, please stop ignoring the Scriptural evidence of Christ. Address my questions please, in this post and in the others (I did not name them all in this post).

May God Bless You All

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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