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Reader comment on item: A Christian Boom
in response to reader comment: Jesus

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Oct 25, 2006 at 18:06

Then you said the following:

And he married a nine year old with God's permission? He had over four wives with Allah's permission? Allah let him marry his step son's wife?

Solomon had 700 wives according to the bible and God (who you believe to be Jesus) didn't care.

I wouldn't say didn't care. For Jesus forbade divorce. Now, let's ask ourselves a logical question, why would there be divorces if there was polygamy? If I didn't like my wife I didn't have to divorce her, no, instead, I'd just marry a new one if polygamy was okay. Only the very high practiced polygamy, but was that God's plan? No! The Garden of Eden was the image that God wanted. One man and one wife.

Solomon sinned. But why did Muhammed break his own commands?!? This is the greatest prophet we're talking about!!!

Then you said the following:

He insulted the pagans...

No the pagans insulted him according to the Quran.

This is written from a Muslim historian:

The Messenger of God proclaimed God's message openly and declared Islam publicly to his tribesmen. When he did so, they did not withdraw from him or reject him in anyway, as far as I had heard, UNTIL he spoke of their gods and denounced them. When he did this, they took exception to it and united in opposition and hostility to him, except for those of them whom God had protected from error by means of Islam. The latter were few in number and practiced their faith in secret. His uncle Abu Talib was friendly to him, however, and protected him and shielded him from them. The Messenger of God continued to do God's work and to proclaim his message, undeterred by anything. When Quraysh saw that he would not give them any satisfaction, they objected to his departing from their ways and denouncing their gods, and seeing that Abu Talib protected him, shielded him from harm, and would not hand him over to them, a number of the nobles of Quraysh, consisting of such men as ‘Utbah b. Rabi‘ah, Shaybah b. Rabi‘ah, Abu al-Bakhtari b. Hisham, al-Aswad b. al-Muttalib, al-Walid b. al-Mughirah, Abu Jahl b. Hisham, al-‘As b. Wa'il and Nubayh and Munabbih, the sons of al-Hajjaj, went to Abu Talib and said, "Abu Talib, your nephew has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values and told us that our forefathers were misguided. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him, for you are just as opposed to him as we are, and we will deal with him for you."

After this, Muhammad was estranged from the Quraysh, and they withdrew from him and harbored a secret hatred for him. They talked about him frequently amongst themselves and urged one another against him. Eventually they went to Abu Talib once again. "Abu Talib," they said, "we hold you in respect among us on account of your age, your nobility and your standing. We asked you to forbid your nephew TO ATTACK US, but you did not do so. By God, we can no longer endure this vilification of our forefathers, this derision of our traditional values and this abuse of our gods. Either you restrain him or we shall fight both of you over this until one side or the other is destroyed,"

A number of men of the Quraysh gathered together with a number of other shaykhs of the Quraysh, and said to one another, "Let us go to Abu Talib and speak to him about Muhammad, so that he will give us justice against him and order him to desist from reviling our gods and we will leave him to the god whom he worships for we fear that this old man may die and we may do something which the Arabs will reproach us for and say, ‘They let him alone until his uncle died, and then they laid hands on him.'"

They sent one of their number, whose name was al-Muttalib, to Abu Talib to ask permission for them to enter. He said, "Here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe asking permission to visit you." He told him to ask them to come in, and when they had done so they said, "Abu Talib, you are our elder and our chief, so give us justice against your nephew and order him to desist from reviling our gods, and we will leave him to his god."

Abu Talib sent for the Messenger of God, and when he came in he said, "Nephew, here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe. They have asked for justice against you, that you should desist from reviling their gods and they will leave you to your god." "Uncle," he said, "shall I not summon them to something which is better for them than their gods?" "What do you summon them to?" he asked. He replied, "I summon them to utter a saying through which the Arabs will submit to them and they will rule over the non-Arabs." Abu Jahl said from among the gathering, "What is it, by your father? We would give you it and ten like it." He answered, "That you should say, ‘There is no deity but God.'" They took fright at that and said, "Ask for anything rather than that!" But he said, "If you were to bring me the sun and put it into my hand, I would not ask you for anything other than this."

They rose up to leave in anger and said, "By God, we shall revile you and your god who commands you to do this!" "The chiefs among them hurried about, exhorting; Go and be staunch to your gods! This is a thing designed…" to the words "naught but an invention." (The History of al-Tabari: Muhammad at Mecca, translated and annotated by W. Montgomery Watt and M. V. McDonald [State University of New York Press, Albany 1988], Volume VI, pp. 93-95;) emphasis added

When Abu Talib fell ill, a number of Quraysh visited him, among them Abu Jahl, who said, "Your nephew is reviling our gods and doing and saying all sorts of things. Why do you not send for him and forbid him to do this?"… Abu Talib said to him, "Nephew, how is it that your tribe are complaining of you and claiming that you are reviling their gods and saying this, that and the other?" They showered accusations upon him, and then the Messenger of God spoke and said, "Uncle, I want them to utter one saying. If they say it, the Arabs will submit them and the non-Arabs will pay the jizyah to them." They were perturbed at this utterance and said, "One saying? Yes, by your father, and ten! What is it?" Abu Talib said, "What saying is it, nephew?" He replied, "There is no deity but God." They rose up in alarm, shaking the dust off their garments and saying, "Does he make the gods one god? This is indeed an astounding thing." Then came the revelation beginning with the words just spoken by these men and ending "they have not yet tasted my doom."

When Quraysh discovered that Abu Talib had refused to abandon the Messenger of God and to hand him over, and was determined to break with them on this issue and become their enemy, they brought ‘Umarah b. Walid b. al-Mughirah to him, and said, I have been told, "Abu Talib, this is ‘Umarah b. al-Walid, the bravest, most poetically gifted and most handsome young man in Quraysh. Take him, and his intelligence and his support are yours. Take him as a son, and he is yours; and hand over your nephew who has opposed your religion and the religion of your forefathers, who has sowed discord among your tribe and who has derided their traditional values, and we shall kill him. A man for a man." …

After this, the situation deteriorated, hostility became more bitter, and people withdrew from one another and showed open hatred to one another. Then the Quraysh incited one another against those in their various clans who had become Companions of the Messenger of God and had accepted Islam with him. Every clan fell upon those of its members who were Muslims, tormenting them and trying to force them to leave their religion. God protected his Messenger from them by means of his uncle Abu Talib who saw what the Quraysh were doing among the Banu Hashim and the Banu al-Muttalib and called on them to follow him in protecting and defending the Messenger of God…

When he summoned his people to the guidance and light which had been revealed to him and for which God had sent him, they did not withdraw from him at the beginning of his preaching, and were on the point of listening to him. When, however, he spoke of their idols, some wealthy men of Quraysh who had come from al-Ta'if took exception to this and reacted strongly against him, not liking what he said… (Ibid., pp. 95-98) emphasis added

"What was the worst attack you saw by Quraysh upon the Messenger of God when they openly showed their enmity to him?" He replied, "I was with them when their nobles assembled one day in the Hijr and discussed the Messenger of God. They said, ‘We have never seen the like of what we have endured from this man. He has derided our traditional values, abused our forefathers, reviled our religion, caused division among us, and insulted our gods. We have endured a great deal from him,' or words to that effect. While they were saying this, the Messenger of God suddenly appeared and walked up and kissed the Black Stone. Then he passed by them while performing the circumambulation, and as he did so they made some slanderous remarks about him. I could see from the Messenger of God's face that he had heard them, but he went on. When he passed the second time they made similar remarks, and I could see from his face that he had heard them, but again he went on. Then he passed them the third time, and they made similar remarks; but this time he stopped and said, ‘Hear, men of Quraysh. By Him in whose hand Muhammad's soul rests, I have brought you slaughter.' They were gripped by what he said, and it was as though every man of them had a bird perched on his head; even those of them who had been urging the severest measures against him previously spoke in conciliatory ways to him, using the politest expressions they could think of, and said, ‘Depart in true guidance, Abu al-Qasim; by God you were never ignorant.'

"The Prophet left, and the next day they gathered in the Hijr, and I (‘Abdallah b. ‘Amr b. al-‘As) was again present. They said to one another, ‘You were talking about the unpleasantness which you have endured and the things which Muhammad has done to you, but when he openly said something disagreeable you shrank from him.' While they were saying this, the Messenger of God suddenly appeared, and they leapt upon him as one man and surrounded him, saying, ‘Is it you who says this and that?' repeating what they had heard of his denunciation of their gods and their religion. The prophet said, ‘Yes, I am the one who says that.'"

"Then I saw one of them grabbing his cloak, but Abu Bakr stood in front of him weeping and saying, ‘Woe upon you all! Would you kill a man because he says, My Lord is God?' Then they left him, and that is the worst thing I ever saw Quraysh do to him." (Ibid., pp. 101-102; bold and underline emphasis ours)"

Work of Ibn Ishaq.

So Muhammed struck first. Whatever the case, Muhammed had such a lack of knowledge of Allah that he never used Allah's ne emphasis ours

real name nor could he answer the question of the Jews.

Then you said the following:

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness"

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:3)

Genesis 1:26 is not talking about the trinity and if itis then show us the proof.

... God used a plural not singular word... The word us, means that there is plurality!!! Why did he not say, "Let me make man in my image, in my likeness". But NO! He used us and our.

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22) emphasis added

Genesis 6:3 is talking about the holy spirit and it says it will not challenge because man his mortal and man days will be a hundred and twenty years which is wrong because the average age person dies today is about 80 years in western world and in Africa people live no more than 60 years.

And the Holy Spirit is God...

18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This passage exalts the Holy Spirit. In the name of the Holy Spirit.

30I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. (Romans 15:30) emphasis added

The Spirit loves.

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:3-4) emphasis added

Peter calls the Holy Spirit God.

"Come near me and listen to this:
"From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there."
And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,
with his Spirit. (Isaiah 48:16) emphasis added

Now, let's have an in depth study of the characteristics of the Holy Spirit. So far we know the Holy Spirit can feel (love in the example above), and he is even called God.

Is the Holy Spirit the Creator?

The Spirit of God has made me;
the breath of the Almighty gives me life. (Job 33:4) emphasis added


And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.(Romans 8:11) emphasis added


Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast. (Psalm 139:7-10) emphasis added

Giver of Life?

6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:6) emphasis added


14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! (Hebrews 9:14) emphasis added

Can He speak?

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." (Acts 8:29) emphasis added

12The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man's house. (Acts 11:12) Emphasis added

2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." (Acts 13:2) Emphasis added

Of course, we know he's omnipotent because he creates and omniscient because he can search the heart. The Holy Spirit indwells, sanctifies, and seals the believers. Who has these qualities except God?

Then you said the following:

If you truly believe that Jesus is the Messiah, then why do you not believe him to be God's own son? I promised you that I would give you verses that show that Jesus is God:

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel." (Genesis 3:15)

So this passage says that the woman's offspring (yet there is no mention of a man's offspring) and the serpent will conflict. Jesus had no father, and crushed the serpent.

I see him, but not now;
I behold him, but not near.
A star will come out of Jacob;
a scepter will rise out of Israel.
He will crush the foreheads of Moab,
the skulls of all the sons of Sheth. (Numbers 24:17)

Jesus was the star of Jacob.

1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.

2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -

3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;

4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.

5 Righteousness will be his belt
and faithfulness the sash around his waist. (Isaiah 11:1-5)

This is how Isaiah clarifies that the person who will judge is the same as the person who has the Spirit on him. And this person is a descendent of Jesse. Jesus.

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. (Daniel 7:13)

Son of Man was Jesus' favorite title for himself.

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans [a] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins [b] are from of old,
from ancient times. [c] "(Micah 5:2)

So this Messiah was from ancient times. In other words, eternity.

And now, the most important:

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)

This man was to be God. He will be called, MIGHTY GOD. This is directly opposite of what Muhammed teaches. Only one can be right! I will address the issues on what Jesus says of himself and how he fulfills the attributes of God.

Genesis 3:15 is not talking about Jesus it is talking about Adam and Eve when they sinned:

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush [b] your head,
and you will strike his heel." 16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you." 17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.

I know that God is talking to the woman, man, and the Devil. However, the fact is, God says that the Seed of the Woman (not of man) will strike the Serpent (that is, Satan). It is talking about Jesus, although is was being told towards Adam and Eve.

Number 24:17 is not talking about Jesus because Jesus didn't crush Moab or the sons of Sheth and never will because Moab doesn't existed anymore.

Moab/Sheth is literal. They symbolize all the enemies of the Jews. If this does not apply to Jesus, then what did Jesus mean when he said Moses wrote about him?

Isaiah 11:1-5 is not talking about Jesus because Jesus is a descendant of David and of Jesse and anyway according to Isaiah 11:4 the Jesse descendant shall slay the wicked and Jesus didn't do that and who is this Jesse anyway?

Jesse is the father of David. It is obvious that you're not understanding the nature of Jesus. Jesus' second coming is judgement, where he will slay the wicked. Compare:

"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelations 19:11-16) emphasis added

This is Jesus. Let's compare this with some of the prophecies we discussed earlier.

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations. (Isaiah 42:1) emphasis added

" he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his law the islands will put their hope." " (Isaiah 42:4)

The LORD will march out like a mighty man,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies.

14 "For a long time I have kept silent,
I have been quiet and held myself back.
But now, like a woman in childbirth,
I cry out, I gasp and pant.

15 I will lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools. (Isaiah 42:13-15) emphasis added

So Isaiah was talking about how in Jesus' SECOND COMING, he will judge the earth.

Then Manoah inquired of the angel of the LORD "What is your name, so that we may honor you when your word comes true?"

18 He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding. (Judges 13:17-18) emphasis added

This is Jesus before coming into the world as a man. This passage definately goes along with Revelations 19:12. The Angel of the Lord was one way Jesus showed himself to man before coming as man, notice how he is 'the' not 'a' angel of the Lord?

And the Word in verse 13 goes with,

"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) Emphasis added

Daniels 7:13 is not talking about Jesus because it says the following:

13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

Jesus was giving authority glory and sovereign power over all people and nations and men of every language because according to you he was killed.

Again, you need to understand the Second Coming in the Book of Revelations. After all, the Gospels tell us that Jesus said he would return like this:

"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:62) emphasis added
Micah 5:2 is not talking about Jesus because it says the following:

1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, [a]
for a siege is laid against us.
They will strike Israel's ruler
on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans [b] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins [c] are from of old,
from ancient times. [d] " 3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites. 4 He will stand and shepherd his flock
in the strength of the LORD,
in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God.
And they will live securely, for then his greatness
will reach to the ends of the earth. 5 And he will be their peace.

Bethlehem Ephrathah is a clan and does not refer to a town. Bethlehem Ephrathah who was the son of Caleb's second wife Ephrathah and anyway if you were to read the rest of the chapter it will become clear that it refers to a military leader.

This is obvious that you have distorted the passage. The man who was coming from Bethlehem will rule over Israel (aka King of the Jews, Mark 15:2), was from ancient times and whose origins are from of old. How can a simple military man be eternal?!? Israel expected a militant leader, but that was not what God was planning.

Isaiah 9:6 I will explain later.

Very well. Although, you can continue to try barrage these prophecies if you wish.



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