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Reader comment on item: The Evil Isn't Islam
in response to reader comment: You have just proved my point

Submitted by z (United States), Jul 11, 2006 at 00:34

well, rich, im glad you responded. i have to say, you have given the most intelligent answer to any of my comments yet. so lets just start from the top. you say that Islam has a violent nature. by nature, it is not violent. however, fighting is something which is at the pinnacle of Islam. so in a way, you are right, which is why i did not call Islam a nonviolent deen (way of life) in the first place. it is people like you who give us reason to fight (there, i said it again) because people like you not only encourage others against Islam but you spread the love of the world (i.e. secularism) into people's hearts. also, we fight because we are being fought against...we are fighting defensively. i'll save this for another comment.

about women, the Quran teaches that the wife should be obedient. Islam teaches that the wife should obey the husband because, yes, the husband does provide for the family and the husband does have rights over his wife. however, you misinterperet the verse of Quran which you quote, and i will explain it to you. let me point out that this is AL-NISA: 34, NOT AL-NISA: 4 as you stated. the verse says, "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)." as you can read here, the Quran does not encourage the beating of women, but it is as a last resort. if the wife is rebellious against her husband, then the husband is first to admonish her. then you refuse to share the bed (not sexual abuse because it is a consequence for rebelliion/ill-conduct), and, as an absolute last resort, you do beat them lightly. there is no excuse for the wife to be rebellious unless the husband is telling her to do something which is against the command of Allah. simple.

about America not being a Christian country, you are right. and i never called it a Christian country. however, i did say that it is represented by the West because i wanted to prove my point. Islam calls for the death penalty for rape and adultery, and you do not. also, the punishment for stealing is clear in the Quran and Hadith. i will paste a copy of a detailed explanation of the punishment from the website, http://www.victoryscent.co.uk/cutting_hands_for_theft.htm

CUTTING THE HAND OF THE THIEF

Question:

Could you please tell me under Islamic law, is the punishment for stealing, the cutting of hands?

Are any factors considered before such punishment is dealt? i.e. witnesses, persistent criminals, the criminal's circumstances etc.

Would a mother, under difficult circumstances, who steals to feeed her hungry baby, receive the same punishment?

Answer:

In the Name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

The different penalties prescribed by Shariah is not in order to inflict harm on people and make them suffer, rather the Shariah concept for imposing penalties for the various crimes is that they prevent harm, destruction and anarchy in the society. They are not prescribed in order to harm people, but the contrary.

Allah Most High says:

"In the law of retaliation there is (saving of) life to you, O you men of understanding" (Surah al-Baqarah, 179).

Due to the idea behind these various penalties being imposed not to make an individual suffer, rather to create a better society as a whole, the Shariah laid down certain strict rules and conditions in order for the punishment to be established or enforced. These strict conditions can be seen in all the various penalties that have been imposed.

The case with theft and stealing is the same in that certain conditions have been laid down for the penalty to be imposed. If the conditions are met, only then will such a penalty be enforced.

CONDITIONS FOR THE PENALTY OF THEFT

The following are the conditions which must be met in order to establish the penalty of theft:

1) The one who steals is sane

2) He has reached puberty

3) He steals equivalent to the amount (nisab) or more. The Nisab is one Dinar or ten Dirhams (i.e. 4.374 grams of gold). The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

"There is no cutting (of hands) for stealing that is less then ten Dirhams" (Musnad Ahmad).

Sayyidah Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that

"The hands were not cut in the time of the Messenger of Allah for stealing worthless things" (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah).

Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that:

"The hand of a thief was not cut off during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) except for stealing something equal to a shield in value" (Sahih al-Bukhari, 6792, & Sahih Muslim, 1685).

A shield was worth one Dinar at that time, as narrated by Ibn Abbas in Sunan Abu Dawud & Sunan Nasa'i.

4) He steals the article from a place that meets the requirements of security and safeguarding. This security is considered when the article is safeguarded by a guard or by it being locked in a place.

5) The article is in the ownership of another person

6) There is no confusion in it (as to whether he took it by way of theft or for some other reason).

7) It was stolen secretly (not by force, etc…).

If any of the above conditions are not met, then the penalty of theft will not be established.

Allah Most High says:

"As to the thief, male of female, cut off his or her hands. A punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime" (Surah al-Ma'idah, 38).

As far as the evidence and testimony is concerned, stealing will be established by self admittance once or by the testimony of two adult males. The witnesses will be asked the details of the incident, as not to make an error.

A person's hand is not amputated when he steals less than the equivalent of 4.374 grams of gold, from place that does not meet the requirements of security, something that is useless, something that is in general ownership such as water in the river, sticks from the wood, etc…, food that rots very quickly such as milk, meat, fruits, etc…, articles that are unlawful due to the possibility that one had an intention of getting rid of it, such as musical instruments.

THE PENALTY

The penalty for the one who steals (when the above conditions are met) is that his/her right arm is amputated. If a person steals a second time, his left foot is amputated; if a third time, then he will be imprisoned until he repents, but no further amputation will take place.

Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says:

"I feel guilty in front of Allah if I leave him without hands (i.e. amputating both) by which he eats, and feet, by which he walks" (Sunan Darqutni, al-Bayhaqi & Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba).

The above are some of the important aspects relating to the penalty of theft. It has been primarily based on the famous Hanafi work al-Ikhtiyar li ta'lil al-Mukhtar.

And Allah knows best.

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

(END OF WEBPAGE)

In regards to your argument about us fighting and you not fighting, let me just say that, especially today, it is not you all who are being put down. it is not you all who have to watch your sisters being raped (look in Iraq) and your land and government be corrupted by modernist and secular governments. we fight because Islam is under attack by people who are attached to this world, and we fight to establish the truth. we fight to establish firmly the word of Allah. you fight to establish democracy and modernism, dont you? the West's own president has made it clear that they will not leave Iraq until it not only establishes democracy (aside from Islamic Shariah), but until it joins the war on "terror" (i.e. the war on Islam). give us one reason not to fight. give us one reason to sit home and listen to news of our holy scripture being desecrated and flushed down a toilet. you have no reason and you will only throw back on me things about "freedom" and "equality" when you know nothing of their meanings.

in regards to your final statement, my answer is that even though Islamic law is beautiful, there is no place in the world which follows it the way it is meant to be followed. so my answer to your question, "If Islamic law is so good, why not move somewhere where hands and feet can be chopped off and you can freely beat your wife if "you fear she has disobeyed you?" then my answer is first that these negative accusations have already been answered, and also that there is nowhere in the world where i can move and live under Islamic law.

my regards, and i will await a response, Rich.

Submitting....

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