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To Shakeel: Don't swallow all those moulvi stories

Reader comment on item: Bolstering Moderate Muslims
in response to reader comment: RE:ToShakeel: Rasool's vengeance and Ali's fear of Allah

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), May 28, 2007 at 07:05

Shakeel, you are in square brackets and you wrote:

[So you are saying, Muhammad (sws) mass forgave the Maccans because they were his kins. No not at all. Rasool cannot forgive God's enemies no matter they are his close relatives.]

I will not mention them since you don't believe hadiths that don't support your view, but you must be aware that hadiths exist where the Rasool fondly hopes that the Quraish would follow him. But as a good Muslim you must be aware of the following traditions: The prophet demanded special treatment for his uncle who was captured at Badr. The Rasool returned the ransom his daughter had sent for her captured husband (with the added condition that his daughter be sent to him as her husband was a pagan, thus breaking up a marriage for religion), he favoured Ali even when he had broken his rule, he also gave more booty to the Quraish who had followed him than the Ansars and when they protested fobbed them off by telling them something about what a big favour he was doing by just being among them (you can correct me here).

[This is why, son fought against with father and father fought against with son on the Battle of Badr and many others. They were cutting the throats of each other not playing hide and seek or Tom and Jerry.]

Why do you swallow everything your maulvis tell without giving it a little thought. Did this same Prophet not take the protection of his infidel uncles and relatives when he was powerless in Mecca. He did not spurn idol worshippers' protection but gladly took it. Once he usurps power in Medina he expects his followers to fight their infidel relatives be they sons or fathers. Your history tells of an infidel son (father) telling his father (son) that he had him under his sword many times but spared him because of his love for him. But the reply from the follower of the true religion, Islam, was that if it had been the other way around he would have gladly slit his throat. That is what Islam expects from its believers, Shakeel. Can you tell us, Tom, what you would do in a similar circumstance, you being the believer and the person under your sword your son? Will you gladly cut little Jerry's throat for the greater glory of Islam and its Rasool?

[Also the punishment for polytheists was death but punishment for a Jew and Christian was to pay Jiziyah or exile]

You give me the shivers, Shakeel. The word death comes so easily off your keyboard. Would a normal human with a normal human conscience (not one imposed by the merciful Allah) cooly cut the throat of a polytheist for refusing to repeat the shahada. You have told us with great appreciation about the Ali incident. So I can guess the answer. The polytheist can escape only by spitting in your face.No other escape from death for the polytheists. What happens to Jews and Christians when all the world becomes Muslim and they refuse to pay the Jiziya? Where will you exile them. Push them onto the high seas?

[Banu Quraizah, they got what they asked for. They did not trust Muhammad; instead they trusted their arbitrator, who prescribed the punishment from their own book.]

They did? They wanted to commit mass suicide? They asked that all the males be beheaded and all the women and children be sold into slavery? I realise that you have a good sense of humour, Shakeel, being a fan of Tom and Jerry. Why would they trust Mohammed, they had the example of the Banu Qaynuka who were about to be executed but your Rasool had to stay his hand because of political pressure from Abdulla bin Ubay, the hypocrite. Where did you get the story about Saad Muad consulting the Torah or Talmud before pronouncing judgement. I would like you to give me your source.

[We know, Muhammad (sws) forgave the Banu Qanuqa, they did not just conspired, they helped pagans against Muslims.]

Your jokes are getting funnier, Shakeel. Exile+confiscation of land and property = forgiveness.That really had me rolling on the floor. What is equally funny is your saying this 'forgiveness' came because of the Qaynuka helping pagans and not because a Muslim girl was offended/teased. Your moulvi is padding up the story.

[Yes, Abu Ahkaf, Kaf bin Ashraf, Asma Bint Marwan were killed not because they wrote or said poems against Muhammad as a person, they wrote against him as a Rasool. If they were criminal of Muhammad, they were forgiven. But the crime was against God, so they got the taste of the God's punishment.]

Asma Bint Marwan wrote a poem criticising the killing of a fellow poet. Was that a crime against Allah? Even if it was could not the Rasool have stayed her assassin's hand till her little babies had grown up to take care of themselves. We can see that Allah has a conscience too because he so often asks that orphans be taken care of, maybe becaue Islam is an an orphan creating engine.

What about Kinana Al Rabi? Torturing and killing someone to get some treasure is a punishment of Allah? Let me tell you the story in case your maulvi had a lapse of memory. The story is so horrendous there is a move to discredit it now. Kinana was the treasurer of the Banu Nadir. After his tribe was subdued he was asked to reveal the whereabouts of the the tribes' treasure. He denied knowledge. The merciful Rasool told him if he found it he would be killed. Part of the treasure was found but Kinana still refused to divulge the location of the remaining. The merciful Rasool told one of his henchmen to torture him till he revealed its whereabouts. The brave man refused even under torture. The merciful Rasool then had him beheaded.

The Prophet did not get what he wanted from Kinana but he did get something else from him. The beautiful q17-year-old Safiya, another addition to the Mothers of believers. He wanted to marry her the same day. But under pleading from her (what with her husband tortured and killed, her uncles and other relative killed) the Rasool in his mercy agreed to postpone the nuptials. Till the next day! As Allah's Rasool he could also break Allah's rule of the iddat period to marry her too. The merciful Rasool's defenders discredit this story but none have cast doubts on the prophet marrying Safiya the day after the killing of her husband. This is a little diversion from the main theme of your reply, but an intersting one for you to ponder on the mercy of your Rasool.

[Bukhari is not a divine book; it is written by a human and contains lot of wrong and fabricated hadiths. FYI Bible is also a hadith because it was written by John, Mathew, Luke...]

For sure those fabricators will burn in Allah's hell. Allah made sure his Koran would be uncorrupted. We are also expected to follow the sunnah. And a good part of the sunnah is derived from the hadises. How do you know they are not derived from fabricated hadises?

[At the Day of Judgment, God will not ask, did you follow Bukhari, did you read Muslim, He will ask one question, Did you read Quran, did you follow it?}

The sunnah is out the window? When Allah asks me why I thrashed my wife for being uppity I will tell Him His Koran allows me to. When He asks me why I as an Islamic government inspector threatened my Jewish and Christian neighbours I will tell Him that His Sharia allows me to do that and as they were dirt poor and had no money to pay the jiziya which He has imposed on them.


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