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shakeel: You keep justifying the unjustifiable

Reader comment on item: Bolstering Moderate Muslims
in response to reader comment: RE: Bolstering Moderate Muslims

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jun 26, 2007 at 01:55

Shakeel, what you wrote are in inverted commas:

"---Abbas had been hiding his faith, he did not want to fight against Muslims, but it would reveal their secret faith, that's why he participated in the war but he remained behind the pagans and did not come forward to fight.---"

So Shakeel, did Abbas set a good example for Muslims. Will you as a good Muslim if called upon to fight for your country (if you are a citizen of an infidel country) against a Muslim country, say Iraq or Afghanistan, remain behind the pagans of your country and pretend to be on their side? Isn't that being a hypocrite if not a traitor to your country of citizenship? Your prophet was quick to accuse others of being hyprocrites. What was the Prophet's uncle Abbas? How can any country trust its Muslim population in times of conflict with Muslim countries?

"---Actually, I have nothing of my own, everything has been granted to me by God. My life, my family, property and wealth, everything is actually Gods' not mine. God gave Ibrahim a son in a very old age and when Ibrahim was in full love with him, God asked him to sacrifice his son. Being a true servant of God, Ibrahim in spite of his fraternal love did not forget that his son is not actually his own, it was given to him by God and belongs to God, so he sacrificed him and established for all of us that we all belong to God and nothing belongs to us.---"

What you seem to saying is that if you think that god has asked you to sacrifice your son or a member of your tribe or anything else for that matter to make a bloodthirsty being happy you should do it? Human sacrifice was rampant in ancient times. Do you see anything wrong with the Aztecs or Incas sacrificing humans to appease their gods? If you can believe in a bloodthirsty god (You slit the throats of animals now to commemorate that memorable event of a near-human sacrifice) why not other people? If you can claim that your Allah asked Abraham to sacrifice his son to prove his loyalty (of which Allah was already sure) what is your objection to human sacrifice by other people??

"---When Rasool comes, the Truth he presents to people becomes so apparent to them and clear that all those who hear of it, are not left with any valid excuse to deny it. If at all they reject the Rasool's call, it is a deliberate and conscious denial of the Truth due to personal motives or blind obstinacy in the face of apparent Truth. Such rebellion and obstinacy does not go unpunished in this world when Rasool of God is among them.---"

Sahkeel, can't you see anything really odd in what you have written? If I am left with no doubt about something why would I deny it unless I am mentally deificient? A mentally deficient person cannot be held responsible for his behaviour. Your objective, it is obvious, is to gloss over the killings the Prophet indulged in and for which you have no other excuse but this silly one of the Prophet's message being apparent and clear to people who heard it. The prophet's message is there in the Koran, so why is it not clear to people who read it? Another way of looking at this is that Allah created a group of idiots during your prophet's time. So preach as he might they would not be conviced of his message. And since Allah himself created those deficient in brain-power He orders his Rasool to decapitate as many of those idiot rebels as he could as punishment. Can you find any fault in my reasoning, Shakeel?

"---You asked me scriptural arguments; I have already been providing that to you. I have been giving you verses about Rasool.

Sunnah has no link with Hadith, it has link with Quran. I mean spirit of Sunnah is found in Quran. For example, Quran says be clean and we know it is Prophet's Sunnah to trim Mustaches, under arm hair and pubic hair.---"

What you are saying is that only the Koran is your touchstone for all your actions. You claim the Koran asks people to be clean and that you link to the Prophet's habit of trimming his moustache and pubic hair. Instead of trimming them can't you just wash them. And if Allah was so worried that moustaches and pubic hairs are unclean why did he give them to us in the first place?

"---Please read above. Once Rasool is gone, none of People of Book can be forced to convert or pay Jizyia.---"

If so why did his favourite companion, Abu Bakr, go to war to reconvert the tribes who left Islam on the Prophet's death. And why did Muslims rulers for nearly 1400 years impose Jizya on Christians, Jews and Hindus (the Moghuls). What about Buddhists, Hindus, animists? Can they be forced to convert or pay jiziya?

"---also answers your points 3, 4, 5, 6---"

The answers are loud and clear, Shakeel. Like 007 your Prophet was licenced to kill by Allah. And he did with gay abandon. James Bond had pangs of conscience when he pulled the trigger, but not your Prophet. When Saad announced that heartless genocidal judgement your Rasool said the ruling had Allah's stamp of approval. When a doubt-ridden assassin asked the Prophet if he would be punished for killing a woman who was a mother of many children (Asma Bint Marwan) the MERCY FOR ALL MANKIND told him two goats would not butt their heads over it. Sure Shakeel, everyone he killed had been marked for death beforehand anyway by the merciful Allah.

"---Prophet married to so many women for two reasons---"

"---To have kinships with other tribes---"

That isn't even funny. The Prophet massacres the menfolk of Safiya, including the torture and murder of her husband, Kinana AlRabi, usurps their land and literally forces himself on her. What kind of kinship was he trying to develop? He has the entire Banu Quraiza men decapitated and all the women and children enslaved and sold and takes Rehana for a concubine/wife. Was he trying to have kinship with the Quraiza in their graves? What kind of intelligence level you assumed your readers have?

"---To have his private life noted by many women (instead of one, two or three)---"

And what was the purpose behind this noting? Except for some of Aisha's explicit descriptions of the Prophet's private life, including how she washed semen from his dress what other great lessons from his private life did the other women he married pass on to us. Please enlighten us.

"---He chose young women because, they were going to live longer and witness Prophet's private and personal life to Companions and their next generations.---"

Really? Could he not have waited a few months or even weeks to marry the 17-year-old Safiya so she could get over her grief. Or was this mother of believers so devoid of feeling that she was eager to jump into another man's bed even before her tortured husband's body had grown cold? What kind of stories of the Prophet's private life do we have from Juwairiya, or Safiya? Why then did he keep concubines?

"---Wife beating is allowed in Quran as a last resort to keep rebellious wife in control; however wife beating does not mean physical abuse as you might be thinking.---"

So is your wife like an animal, like a horse or a cow, which has to be controlled by a thrashing. If wife beating is not physical abuse what is it. Where is the limit of the thrashing spelled out?Who controls the husband? In Islam a woman's situation is as bad as that of animals if Tabari's account of what the merciful prophet said at the farewell sermon is to be believed. Tabari: The events of the Year 10 '....Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals ('awan0 with you and do not possess anything for themselves.' Or Ibn Ishaq, who reports the Prophet said they are 'your prisoners'. And to this day following the sunnah of the Prophet Muslim women are humiliated, abused, brutalised, killed for the flimsiest of reasons. You know what happens to women in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran. Sudan. Algeria.

Submitting....

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