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Moderate Muslim: Nice try

Reader comment on item: Bolstering Moderate Muslims
in response to reader comment: My Response

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Apr 23, 2007 at 06:31

Moderate Muslim you write: "

Now read these Friday sermons right out of the Prophet's cities of Medina and Mecca:



Here are nice moderate exhortations that I picked up from one of them:


"No two religions can co-exist in Arabia."

The Holy Prophet's

"Expel the Jews and the Christians from the Arab lands."

O Allah! Grant the Muslims honour and dignity.

O Allah! Humiliate Kufr and the Kuffar (disbelievers).

O Allah! Seize the leaders of the Kuffar (disbelievers) in your punishment. O Lord of the Worlds!

O Allah! Cause conflict and disagreement amongst them.

O Allah! Destroy whosoever bears enmity against Islam and the Muslims, O Lord of the Worlds!

O Allah! Create war between the powers of Kufr and engage them in wars amongst themselves, leaving the Muslims alone, O Lord of the Worlds!

O Allah! Foil the conspiracies and plots of the enemies of the Muslims.

O Allah! Whosoever intends mischief and evil towards us and our countries, make their mischief and evil to work against them, and may You become a barrier between us and their mischief, their plots and their conspiracies, O Lord of the Worlds! Indeed, You have power over all things.

O Allah! We entrust You to defend us from all the Kuffar.

O Allah! We entrust You to defend us against the Mushrikeen (Polytheists), O Lord of the Worlds!

O Allah! Seize the Jews and the Christians in Your punishment.

O Allah! Seize the Mushrikeen and the Hindus.

O Allah! Seize the wrongdoers and mete such a punishment to them that cannot be warded off.

O Allah! Verily, they have filled the earth with oppression, tyranny, mischief, disobedience and sins, O Lord of the Worlds!

O Allah! We seek refuge with You from their evils and we entrust You to defend us against them.

O Allah! We seek Your refuge against the evils of the Rawafidh (Shias), Indeed You have power over all things.

O Allah! Unite the hearts of the believers and reform them, guide them towards the path of peace, bring them out of darkness towards light, and help them against Your enemies and their enemies, O Lord of the Worlds!

You say 'Muslims are not permitted to kill for no reason.'

What is the big deal about that. No religion allows killing without reason. But what is critical and shameful is the reasons Islam allows for killing. Stoning to death for adultery. To go and kill or be killed for Islam. The constant goading and encouragement to fight. 9:28, 38, 39, 41, 88, 89, 111, 8:39, 65, 2:216. Especially read 003.085 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Moderate Muslim can you show me an iota of moderation in these verses? Are those verses not some of the reasons Muslim are so willing to kill non-Muslims?

You ask "what led them to believe that they were warranted (which they werent) in attacking America in the name of Islam." After reading: 009.088 But the Messenger and those who believe with him strive hard with their property and their persons; and these it is who shall have the good things and these it is who shall be successful. And 009.089 Allah has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them; that is the great achievement. Don't you as a good Muslim wish you had been one of those who crashed one those planes into the World Trade Centre?

You are angry at America and Israel for what is happening to the Palestinians. But are you angry at what Muslims are doing to the Christians and animists in Sudan. Are you angry at what Sudan is doing in Darfur. What is happening in Palestine is not much compared to what Muslims are doing in Sudan.Why do we not see moderate Muslims protest when Muslims are doing the killing? Is it because Allah encourages it? You say "True Muslims are those who follow the teachings of Allah and his prophets." So are the Sudanese following the teachings of Allah and his Prophet? You bet they are. Just read the verses I have mentioned above.

Here is something you say that really, really made me laugh out loud: "...Instead calling Islam a menace and urging reform, we could go back to the Sunnah of the Prophet, a peaceful man, who marched into the city which had tortured him and hurt him and harmed no one. He walked into the city with his army and declared that all people would be safe, he made no one became Muslim, they came to him...." You know why? The Prophet WALKS INTO THE CITY......(then you say) THEY CAME TO HIM! He enters Mecca with an army armed to teeth and the city which had resisted his preaching for more than a decade suddenly decide to become Muslims en masse all of a sudden. How gullible do you think we readers are?Moderate Muslim, also read about hatred taught in Saudi and Pakistan schools. After reading them tell us who are creating these psycho fanatics you talk about.Intolerance in Saudi Arabian TextbooksSource:FIRST GRADEPakistan schools still push hatred

Sunday, August 21, 2005

By Paul Watson, Los Angeles Times

LAHORE, Pakistan -- Each year, thousands of Pakistani children learn from history books that Jews are tightfisted moneylenders and Christians vengeful conquerors. One textbook tells kids they should be willing to die as martyrs for Islam.

These aren't students being indoctrinated by extremist mullahs in madrassas, the private Islamic seminaries often blamed for stoking militancy in Pakistan. These are pupils in public schools learning from textbooks approved by the administration of President Pervez Musharraf.

Since joining the United States as an ally in its "war on terror" four years ago, Musharraf has urged Pakistanis to shun radical Islam and pursue "enlightened moderation."

Musharraf and U.S. officials say education reforms are crucial to defeating extremism in Pakistan, the only Islamic nation armed with nuclear weapons. Yet reformers who study the country's education system say public-school lessons still promote hatred against non-Muslims and urge jihad, or holy war.

"I have been arguing for the longest time that, in fact, our state system is the biggest madrassa," said Rubina Saigol, a U.S.-trained expert on education. "We keep blaming madrassas for everything and, of course, they are doing a lot of things I would disagree with.

"But the state ideologies of hate and a violent, negative nationalism are getting out there where madrassas cannot hope to reach."

The current social-studies curriculum for sixth- and seventh-graders instructs textbook writers and teachers to "develop aspiration for jihad" and "develop a sense of respect for the struggle of [the] Muslim population for achieving independence."

In North-West Frontier Province, governed by supporters of the ousted Taliban regime in neighboring Afghanistan, the federally approved Islamic-studies textbook for eighth grade teaches students they must be prepared "to sacrifice every precious thing, including life, for jihad."

"At present, jihad is continuing in different parts of the world," the chapter reads. "Numerous mujahedeen [holy warriors] of Islam are involved in defending their religion, and independence, and to help their oppressed brothers across the world."

The textbook for adolescent students says Muslims are allowed to "take up arms" and wage jihad in self-defense or if they are prevented from practicing their religion.

"When God's people are forced to become slaves of man-made laws, they are hindered from practicing the religion of their God," the textbook says. "When all the legal ways in this regard are closed, then power should be used to eliminate the evil.

"If Muslims are being oppressed," the book reads, "then jihad is necessary to free them from this cruel oppression."

"Jihad" can mean peaceful struggle as well as holy war. Jihad can be waged on several levels, from a peaceful, inner struggle for one's own soul to the killing of infidels.

Pakistani critics of the public school system maintain that jihad's softer sense is easily lost in lessons that emphasize the oppression of Muslims in many parts of the world and that encourage fellow Muslims to fight.

"Some people coming from the regular school system are volunteering for various kinds of jihad, which is not jihad in classical Islamic theory, but actually terrorism in the modern concept," said Husain Haqqani, a Pakistani author and professor of international relations at Boston University.

"All of that shows that somehow the schooling system has fed intolerance and bigotry."

Pakistan is an Islamic state, and 97 percent of its people are Muslims, so it's not surprising that its government promotes Islamic values in public schools.

But Pakistan's public education system goes beyond instilling pride in being Muslim and encourages bigotry that can foment violence against "the other," said Haqqani, who has written a new book on links between the military and radical Muslims.

Under Pakistan's federal government, a national curriculum department in Islamabad, the capital, sets criteria for provincial textbook boards, which commission textbooks for local public schools.

Javed Ashraf Qazi, a retired army general and former head of the military's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency, was named education minister last September to revive a stalled reform effort.

In a nation with one of Asia's highest illiteracy rates, Qazi said he was determined to have specialists rewrite course guidelines and textbooks, from the first grade to the college level, so that "the curriculum will be in line with that of any other advanced country."

"We don't want to condemn any religion -- which we will not," he said.

A study of the public-school curriculum and textbooks by 29 Pakistani academics in 2002 concluded that public-school "textbooks tell lies, create hatred, inculcate militancy and much more."

The study by the independent Sustainable Development Policy Institute angered religious conservatives, and even a few liberals, who saw it as an attack on the country's Islamic values, or even a plot by Western governments and rival India to subvert Pakistan.

Qazi headed the ISI from 1993 to 1995, when the intelligence agency was recruiting students from Pakistan's madrassas to join the extremist Taliban militia. Under Qazi's watch, the Taliban won its first major victory, the seizure of Kandahar, with ISI training and weapons.

His critics say that makes Qazi the wrong man to take on hard-line Islamic parties and clerics who are blocking education reforms. But the education minister insists he will fight hard to correct a curriculum he calls lopsided.

It would be easier to end extremism in Pakistan if Western governments did more to resolve conflicts that anger Muslims worldwide, such as the war in Iraq, the dispute with India over the enclave of Kashmir, or the Palestinians' struggle against Israel, he said.

After it won independence from Britain in 1947, Pakistan had a secular public-school system. President Zia ul-Haq, a former military dictator, ordered Islamic education to be incorporated into the public-school curriculum in the 1980s as he consolidated power with the support of hard-line Islamic clerics.

Pakistan is still grappling with the lethal forces that Zia's "Islamization" policy unleashed.

Educationists pressing for deeper reforms say they suspect Musharraf, an army general who seized power in a 1999 coup, wants to maintain elements of Zia's strategy in order to preserve the military's dominant role in Pakistani society.

"Reforming education is not a part of Musharraf's agenda, because it will require squarely confronting the mullahs," said Pervez Hoodbhoy, a professor who specializes in high-energy and nuclear physics.

"Musharraf acts only upon pressure, and there must be relentless, sustained pressure from the outside world if meaningful reforms are ever to become reality," he said.

Punjab state's seventh-grade social-studies textbook, published in January, begins with a full-page message from Musharraf urging students to focus on modern disciplines such as information technology and computers.

"It is a historical fact that the Muslims ruled the world for hundreds of years," Musharraf writes. He acknowledges that in the past, Pakistan's school curriculum "was not in concert with the requirements of modern times." But he assures students that "textbooks have been developed, revised and updated accordingly."

The changes, if any, are hard to spot. Disparaging references to Christians, Jews and Hindus from previous editions are carried over to the new text.

A section on the Crusades teaches that Europe's Christian rulers attacked Muslims in the Holy Land out of revenge even though "history has no parallel to the extremely kind treatment of the Christians by the Muslims." (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05233/556833.stm)

And you end with: "Islam is not the problem,".....RIGHT!

" Every religion other than Islam is false."

"Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words (Islam, hellfire): Every religion other than ______________ is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters ____________."


"True belief means . . . that you hate the polytheists and infidels but do not treat them unjustly."


"Whoever obeys the Prophet and accepts the oneness of God cannot maintain a loyal friendship with those who oppose God and His Prophet, even if they are his closest relatives."

"It is forbidden for a Muslim to be a loyal friend to someone who does not believe in God and His Prophet, or someone who fights the religion of Islam."

"A Muslim, even if he lives far away, is your brother in religion. Someone who opposes God, even if he is your brother by family tie, is your enemy in religion."


"Just as Muslims were successful in the past when they came together in a sincere endeavor to evict the Christian crusaders from Palestine, so will the Arabs and Muslims emerge victorious, God willing, against the Jews and their allies if they stand together and fight a true jihad for God, for this is within God's power."


"As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus."

"God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of God's book [the Torah and the Gospels] that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol-worship, soothsaying, and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did."

"They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He will never again be satisfied [with them]."

"Some of the people of the Sabbath were punished by being turned into apes and swine. Some of them were made to worship the devil, and not God, through consecration, sacrifice, prayer, appeals for help, and other types of worship. Some of the Jews worship the devil. Likewise, some members of this nation worship the devil, and not God."

"Activity: The student writes a composition on the danger of imitating the infidels."


"The clash between this [Muslim] community (umma) and the Jews and Christians has endured, and it will continue as long as God wills."

"It is part of God's wisdom that the struggle between the Muslim and the Jews should continue until the hour [of judgment]."

"Muslims will triumph because they are right. He who is right is always victorious, even if most people are against him."


The 10th-grade text on jurisprudence teaches that life for non-Muslims (as well as women, and, by implication, slaves) is worth a fraction of that of a "free Muslim male." Blood money is retribution paid to the victim or the victim's heirs for murder or injury:

"Blood money for a free infidel. [Its quantity] is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, whether or not he is 'of the book' or not 'of the book' (such as a pagan, Zoroastrian, etc.).

"Blood money for a woman: Half of the blood money for a man, in accordance with his religion. The blood money for a Muslim woman is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, and the blood money for an infidel woman is half of the blood money for a male infidel."


"The greeting 'Peace be upon you' is specifically for believers. It cannot be said to others."

"If one comes to a place where there is a mixture of Muslims and infidels, one should offer a greeting intended for the Muslims."

"Do not yield to them [Christians and Jews] on a narrow road out of honor and respect."


"Jihad in the path of God -- which consists of battling against unbelief, oppression, injustice, and those who perpetrate it -- is the summit of Islam. This religion arose through jihad and through jihad was its banner raised high. It is one of the noblest acts, which brings one closer to God, and one of the most magnificent acts of obedience to God."

Nina Shea is director of the Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House. (http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/articles/sauditextbooks.html) Daniel Pipes is not adequately informed about the topic he is commenting on. How many of the posters here have ever been to a mosque? How many have listened to the Friday sermon?"(may peace and blessings be upon him) has said;(may peace and blessings be upon him) last advice was: Washington Post "This is a Saudi Textbook (After the Intolerance was Removed)"


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