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To Shakeel: My forgotten promise to god II

Reader comment on item: Bolstering Moderate Muslims
in response to reader comment: RE:Shakeel: Your interpretation a good beginning to reforming Islam

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), May 23, 2007 at 08:49

Shakeel you are in square brackets and you wrote:

[Many Hadiths are fabricated; these are called Zaeef Hadiths and Mauzoo Hadiths, your heart is hard because you have heard many of such Hadiths but what you never have heard is the science of Hadiths, Ilmul Rajal.]

Hard hearts and soft hearts. What is your definition of a hard heart?Remember writing these words: 'His beloved companion was to kill the apostates which were preached by Muhammad (sws) as a Rasool in his lifetime. Muhammad (sws) advised his companions to kill any apostate who was preached by him because as I said earlier, Rasool is judgment of God on earth and wrong doer must get a punishment and apostate is a wrong-doer.' Those death words must have been very soothing to your soft heart.

I am ignorant of the Hadith science Ilmul Rajal. Applying it to Bukhari's: Volume 2, Book 24, Number 577 can you tell us whether it is fabricated

Narrated Anas:

Some people from 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them, so Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) allowed them to go to the herd of camels (given as Zakat) and they drank their milk and urine (as medicine) but they killed the shepherd and drove away all the camels. So Allah's Apostle sent (men) in their pursuit to catch them, and they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut, and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron and they were left in the Harra (a stony place at Medina) biting the stones. (See Hadith No. 234, Vol. 1)

You talk of hard hearts. Surely your soft heart must have melted contemplating the mercifulness of your Rasool reading this hadith.

[Verse Q 9:29 is well-explained, once you know Rasool is judgment of God on earth and as a rule of God's judgment, righteous are rewarded and wrong doers are punished. And God will repeat the same thing once again for the final time on the Last Day, when He will judge all of us.]

How did you bring the earth in here. Fortunately your Rasool seems to have been limited to the Hijaz. A good number escaped God's judgement. Rasool, you say was judgement of Allah on earth and the righteous are rewarded and punished on earth. The punishment is clear enough, death. What were the rewards apart from the booty including women and slaves from the looting expeditions?

[009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.]

9:111 is also well-explained? That God gives out contracts to Muslims to kill infidels in return for paradise? Is this contract still valid or lapsed with the Prophet's death?

[Verse 8:39 is also about encouraging the Rasool's companions to fight against the Rasool's rejectors, however there is one more moral reason which is still applicable and that is "until there is no more persecution"]

You have not explained what persecution is. Here is one example of persecution as defined by your jurisprudents. If a Muslim is prevented from preaching in a non-Islamic country Muslims are being persucuted. If a non-Muslim preaches in an Islamic country that is also persecution of Muslims. And clause 8:39 of the Sharia: SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

As long as all religion is not for Allah Muslims can keep fighting the infidels and gain paradise.

[... Rasool always proclaims that he is Rasool of God, he is Warner and He has come with glad-tidings for the righteous and bad tidings for the wrong doers.]

This is one little argument from Muslims that bothers a pea-brain like me. If somebody proclaims he is Rasool why should I believe him? What evidence has he brought. I raised this point before, Shakeel. Why should I not believe the next godman who comes along and tells me he is a reincarnation of the Rasool?

[ I already told you that God did not send punishment over the wrong-doers until He does not make them crystal clear that Rasool is from Him and has come with Truth.]

Yes you did tell me that. And I did ask you what is the crystal clear proof that Rasool is from Allah. Have you forgotten? Re-read this: To Shakeel: Give us pea-brained people some solid proof of Rasool's prophethood.

[In case of Muhammad (sws), people were given full 13 years to pay heed on Muhammad (sws) message, but during that time he was not listened but persecuted and then punishment came.]

Shakeel, have you asked yourself why they did not pay heed for 13 years and converted in droves (as the Koran puts it, I can't recollect the verse now) when they saw Mohammed's sword glinting over their heads? Even a pea-brain like me understands why. And Shakeel tell us about the great persecution he underwent during those fruitless years of preaching. Someone threw some dung in his path or somebody else shook him by his neck? During those 13 years the Rasool was busy insulting the holy idols of the pagans, and the tolerant polytheists did nothing much except complain to his uncle or turn their backs on him. You know what happens to people who blaspheme Allah and his prophet in pure and peaceful Islamic nations.

[First, Muhammad (sws) married to 9 year old is against Sunnah, second it is a misreport because there are many hadiths which contradicts this hadith. For example, if we calculate Ayesha's age through her elder's sister's age, Ayesha was no less than 17 at the time of Hijra.]

Not so Shakeel, as many of your scholars argue that girls of that time matured early so she was halal for the prophet. And the other scholars use some rocket mathematics to deduce that Aisha's age is anything between 9 and 19. Using similar mathematics they have even discovered the speed of light in the Koran. And so with Ilmul Rijala and special Islamic mathematics a man old enough to be her grandfather, Aisha gets an unpleasant surprise when she turns 9 or nineteen.


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