1 readers online now  |  69 million page views

My response

Reader comment on item: Bolstering Moderate Muslims
in response to reader comment: Our dear M&M and the bogus context again!

Submitted by moderate Muslim 1 (United States), May 7, 2007 at 19:16

Ok, crunch time,

Here are the answers to your questions. Your stuff in bold. Because your accusations are bold.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not named Michel, and I have never posted anything on any site under that name. Not that it matters, but I just thought that I would put it out there.

1. In Q9:29 your Allah declares unconditional war on the Jews and Christians and the Hindus and the Budddhists aka ahl al-kitab. Right?

No. This verse is talking about the Pagans of Mecca who were in a state of war with the Muslims. This is established in the ayat before. Second, it does say anything about Christians, Jews, Hindus or Buddhists, especially the latter two because the latter two are not Ahl al Kitab. It is reinforcing the last verse which refers to the Pagans.

2. Your Allah in Ayat al-sayf (Q9:4) tells Muslims to go out and kill polytheists unless they convert to islam. Right?

No. For starters 9:4 says nothing about fighting. 9: 4 says that as Muslims have treaties with the Pagans and that they should respect these treaties until they have expired. I would like to point out that I am reading out of the Quran as I type this. You may however be refering to 9:5, which says that when the months of peace are over then the Muslims shoudl again take up arms against those who take up arms against them. For some historical context, the Muslims were ambushed by the Kuffar before the treaty expired, thus breaking the treaty.

3. Then who are really those polytheists? Now we have to turn to Q9:30 where your Allah states that Jews regard 3Uzair as the son of Allah (sic) and Christians regard Jesus as the son of Allah. Right? Therefore your allah is saying that the jews and Christians are _polytheists_ now do you get it or are you beyond help as usual?Therefore the mushrikeen in ayat al-sayf are really the jews and Christians! And you know what? One of the oldest commentaries of the Qur'an is by Muqatil and this is indeed what he says. How about the pagans of Mecca? How about them? And where does it say in ayat al-sayf: iqtoloo al-mushrikeen alladhina ya3ishoon fi Makkah! Oh I forgot that you know no Arabic or "kill the polytheists that live in Mecca" Let me help you it does not say that. So you see? your context thing is gone out of the window!

The Christians and Jews are not polytheists. They do not believe in multiple Gods. The Christians believe in one God, in 3 forms, correct if I'm wrong, but I'm not. That particular sect of Jews called Uzhair the son of God. This does not make them polytheists because obviously an alledged son of God (astaghfirullah) is not really God, but his son (again Astaghfirullah). Also the pagans of Mecca were, wait for it, PAGANS. Which means not Christian or Jewish. Mushrikeen in Arabic is translated into Pagans in all of the translations of the Quran which I have seen. Allah is not telling the Muslims to kill all Jews or Christians. Again for historical context ( I know you hate it but it is important.) After the Treaty of Hudaibiyah, the one that is mentioned in 9:4, was broken, the Muslims took over Mecca in peace. If this was modern times they woudl say "not a shot was fired." The Prophet (pbuh) walked into the place where he had been born, grown up, respected, and then tormented and attacked, and did not harm those who had wronged him. I guess you were expecting a bloodbath, but the truth is that the people were not harmed.

5. Now based on the doctrine of al-nasikh wa al-mansukh (oh do not panic or abrogation) and the fact that surat al-tauba or Q9 is the last revealed Sura then the final dispensation of your Allah is that Jews and Christians and hindus and Buddhists are polytheists and therefore congratulations our dear Michel I mean M&M your Allah is asking you to go and fight all jews and Christians and Hindus and Buddhists!

Now I just refuted all of that but lets go through some more inconsistencies. Nowhere in At-Tauba in the verses you mentioned does one find the word Christian or Jew. I do not know where you got this but there were absolutely no Hindus or Buddhists fighting the Prophet (pbuh) so even if it says Pagans it obviously would not just randomly start talking about a group of people never mentioned in the Quran. I dont know where you got the Hindus or Buddhists from. Repeatedly in At-Tauba it talks about "the Desert Arabs" Tell me, what tribe of the desert Arabs were Hindu, which were Buddhist.

I think I have refuted this pretty well. I look forward to reading your next post, which will undoubtably attack all that I have written here today and repeatedly assault my knowledge of the Arabic language. So thank you for reading this.

Sincerely, Moderate Muslim Numero Uno

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to My response by moderate Muslim 1

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2021 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)