6 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Turks don't apologize. They kill and terrorise to prove they are not guilty of murder or terror 2

Reader comment on item: Turkey in Cyprus vs. Israel in Gaza
in response to reader comment: Turkey need not apologize

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Sep 27, 2010 at 02:27

Caleb writes :

> but Kemal had no love for that erstwhile ally who had led Turkey to defeat and disaster, even had she been in a position to help.<

Your ignorance is amusing. After Lenin's Soviet Russia the second most important force behind Kemal's victory was Germany and the Germans. During his service under general Liman von Sanders - the victor of Gallipoli - Kemal made many useful acquaintances among the German officers and technicians that were trying to modernize the backward Ottoman army. And they proved an Allah-sent gift for Ghazi Kemal in 1919-1920 indeed ! All the technical services in Angora were directed - just like duing the Ittihad time - by the German officers with Leutnant Widecke , Major Krauss , Major Dreusen, Baron von Andretten to name just a few. These German military engineers built the defense lines of Kutahia and Eski Shehir where the Greek offensive broke down. When the Greeks were approaching Angora in August 1921 it was again the German specialists that fortified the approaches to the city with Engel Scheidemann at their head who had been a senior official in the Ottoman War Ministry during 1914-1918.

All that time many Germans having Turkish passports issued by the Turkish consulate in Berlin traveleld regularly over Sophia to Angora with baron Keller serving as the coordinating officer. Kemal's former superior Liman von Sanders never lost his subaltern officer and his war out of sight. Keller is said to have brought from Liman von Sanders a plan of military operations against the Greeks. Liman von Sanders wrote in "Vossische Zeitung" up-to-date articles about the progress of military operations of Kemal's army. In Berlin there was a special assistance committee for the Kemalist army with Turkish emigrés like Talaat Pasha and German sympathisers as members. It recruited officers and technical staff and sent them over Sophia or Italy where it had special agencies in Rome, Naples and Genoa. This committee organized also a printing office in Switzerland headed by Izet Bey , the son-in-law of Zia Bey who was the former Turkish consul in Berlin. It is here that pro-Kemalist and anti-imperialist leaflets and propaganda literature were printed and later distributed among the Moslems in North Africa and India. In Angora delegations from those countries made their appearance too and were received by Kemal.

Beside this committee there was a special Kemalist mission in Berlin that arrived from Angora via Moscow in April 1921. Its principal aim was organizing the purchase (with Lenin's gold of course) and transport of arms and ammunitions, medical and technical equipment and recruiting more German specialists for Kemal's army. It was under these circumstances that "Deutsches Hilfswerk für die kämpfende Türkei" (Aid association for the cause of struggling Turkey) was founded. The organization was looking for contributors and the Krupps donated 300 000 mark on its behalf. In Angora the German influence was channeled through "Deutsches Büro" with its branch "Die politische Abteilung des deutschen Büros in Angora" which resided in no other place than the Palace of the Angora Government , i.e. in the room next to Kemal's.

So much for your ignoarnt BS that " Kemal had no love for that erstwhile ally who had led Turkey to defeat and disaster, even had she been in a position to help".

There is an interesting contemporary study on these events "L'avanture Kémaliste" by Omer Kiazim, Paris 1921. It's freely available on the net but I am sure you won't deign to take a look at it. After all history is too much for you. You prefer Turkish mythomania.

> I do not know where Ianus obtained these figures on the exact amount of gold given over by Russia (down to the tenth of a kilo!).<

I excuse you your ignorance again. Frankly, I got used to it and I bet you could not even imagine that the Russians made a record of what they had given to Ghazi Kemal and later published it. A look at the official site of the Russian embassy in Turkey might help you to locate the figures which admittedly surpass your limited Turkish imagination. And let's not forget that history is the wrost enemy of the Kemalist mythomania upon which Turkey has been built.

> Russia had just emerged from the devastating civil war against the Whites and was at that time the prostrate recipient of international aid organized by future US President Herbert Hoover.

Russia is another subject which is too much for you, so will you kindly refrain from raising it here ? I promise to refrain from my question to you how much gold the bolsheviks with Cheka's terror seized from the tsarist banks and private possessions in the 1917 and 1918 ? Before 1914 Russia was one of the principal producers of gold in the world . That gold could definitely fill pockets even as deep as those of Ghazi Kemal and his gang of thieves and robbers whom all the Armenian gold they had robbed could not satiate.

> I do note that the two ex-Imperial Russian Navy destroyers cited by Ianus are carried on the Soviet register as destroyed--one with the loss of 250 men.<

You badly need a more extensive knowledge to note things in their real perspective and not in the false mirror of your Turkish ignorance. Now do you know where the "Zhyvoy" was lost ? No clue as usual ? Destroyer "Zhyvoy" particpapted in the dramatic evacuation of the Wrangel army from the Crimea in November 1920. her engine was damaged so it was towed by a tug boat "Cherson" out of Kerch when a bad tempest of 7 Beaufort scale surprised her. The tow broke off and the destroyer with all the passengers drifted back and so was recovered by the Frunze's forces. All the white officers and family members were killed without a trial as long as they didn't drown in the storm. She went her way to Turkey togther with Micahel Frunze who is himself an honorrary citizen of the Turkish Republic by the way even today . ;).. Lenin knew how fond the Turks are of battle ships. Some seven years before that two German cruisers the "Goeben" and the "Breslau" cemented the Turkish-German friendship and a common war against the Entente. Now two Soviet destroyers were sent with the same objective to continue the war started in 1914 with a new ally beside the old one acting without battle ships. If you want to see the Zhyvoy go here.

As to the "Zhutkiy" it was captured by the Germans after Brest Litovsk. After the German capitulation , on 24.11. 1918 the English-French forces secured it. Between 22 -24.03.1919 the Allied dismantled it (not "destroyed" as the list suggests) in view of the approaching bolsheviks who in fact took possession of it on 24.04.1919. The Denikin forces re-took it on 24.06.1919. When the Soviets finally occupied Sevastopol in mid-November 1920 they repaired it. But I don't expect you to either know or care about all these details. You're here not to acknowledge or acquire knowledge, clarify things, draw logical conclusions but to spread vulgar Turkish lies and abject ignorance in which your nasty Turkish nationalism can only survive. Unluckily for your lies, they tend to be exposed and turned against you !

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Turks don't apologize. They kill and terrorise to prove they are not guilty of murder or terror 2 by Ianus

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2021 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)