1 readers online now  |  69 million page views

"In the right extent ..."

Reader comment on item: Turkey in Cyprus vs. Israel in Gaza
in response to reader comment: re re re re Ianus

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Aug 18, 2010 at 14:42

Kaan wrote :

> Further on you use several historic examples, interesting ones, which I have never denied or refused!<

It's always hard to deny reality , isn't it ? Anyway, my impression from your comment is that you yourself would never bring forth these historical facts first. They do spoil the finest pro-Turkish discourse the Turkish Ministry of Truth puts into mass circulation , don't they ?

> Turks have commited crimes, that is a fact. It is also a fact, that Greeks have committed crimes, as well as Russian, Bulgarian, Kurds, ... <

If my memory doesn't fail me I have already addressed that moral generalization. It was something about a sense of proportions and about Islam/Turkey not beloning to the same category as the rest of mankind. If you disagree, then address the specific points. I invite you to start by looking at e.g. 200 000 Greeks expelled from Cyprus and mass murders and rapes and other atrocities committed by broad daylight by the Turkish and allegedly being proportionate to what collective guilt ?

> We do not live in an idealistic world, with only good guys and bad guys.<

We live in a very nasty and dirty world where one diabolical religion called Islam and its bloodthirsty followers from Turkey usurp the right to be accusers, judges and executioners in one person in order to legitimize their never ending genocides, thefts , rapes, terror , conquests and lies. Don't you find it to be much too much to bear without indignation even for the most naive and credulous inhabitants of this earth ?

> Each crime is a shame and needs to be fairly discussed and made public, so that next generations do not do the same mistakes.<

Try to discuss in public the mass murders commitetd by Kemal and his hordes and definitely somebody will be murdered soon afterwards. Guess who !

> Many Turks do not do that in the right extent, as they deny many crimes totally and are not used to discuss about difficult topics.<

"In the right extent..."? What a fine euphemism of yours ! Do you know that there are at least two laws (301 of the Turkish Penal Code and Law No. 5816 on Ataturk's memory ) designed specifically to prevent , suppress and severely punish any public utterance about Turkish bloody past and the arch-criminal Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha aka Ataturk ? What do you expect from such an Orwellian political system with the notorious Turkish history lies and memory holes ?

Anyway, I am sure your pro-Turkish feelings will remain intact even in the face of that information. Pro-Turkishness just like Turkishness tend to develop amazing immunity to facts and their implications.

> I would like to give you an example of a current crime, from my point of view: There is always an outcry in Turkey, to be more precise, within certain Turkish groups, if a Western European authority has stopped a mosque construction or something similiar as burka ban.<

And what do you expect from a country with the world's highest per capita ratio of mosques (1 mosque per 350 inhabitants , although with only 1 hopital per 60000 inhabitnts ;) and with more imams than teachers and doctors ? Should they be happy that the West is trying to remain what Turkey has long since abandoned as unworkable - secularism ?

> How many churches have been allowed to be constructed within the last 10 years in Turkey. I do not know, I would guess 0 (former ones newly renovated not included).

You ask a wrong question. The right questions should be : "How many churches have the Turks desecrated, changed into mosques, torn or burnt down, confiscated recently ? How many Christian cemeteries have they vandalised ? How many ecclesiatical objects have they stolen and sold on the black market ? How often have they terrorized, expropriated, besieged and tried to assassinate the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople ? ..." If you're interested in these and related issues take a look at my comment above "The martyrdom and agony of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Turkey".

This again has a direct bearing on the sense of proportions and immunity to facts and doubts.

> It is quite obvious, that there is no tolerance to other religions.<

"No tolerance" is perhaps too mild an expression if you're dealing with methods of outright and wholesale genocide, government-organized pogroms and terror, assassinations with bombs and grenades coming from the Turkish Army depots, with forced conversions and daily humiliations and threats ... I prefer the word "jihad" to describe the situation as much more adequate.

> Now I can blame Turkey, yes, and I do.<

Do you ? Do you know that it is all also Ataturk's legacy who said watching with his cold eyes filled with hatred the fires and horrors of Smyrna which he himself ordered "Look ! This is the end of an era. From now on Turkey will belong to the Turks and to Turks only and to no one else! " ? Kemal - the new god of Turkey - was a mass murderer , wasn't he ? Will you blame him in public ? (By the way he also said on antother interesting occassion "I am Turkey! Whoever is against me is against Turkey!")

> However, I do not stop there, as there are similiar injustices with minority groups in e.g. Greece. <

Well, with your feeble sense of proportions it is exactly what I expected from you. Now will kindly produce a document/discourse/facts that are comparable to what I have said about the agony of the revered head of some 300 000 000 Orthodox Christians because of Turkish wickedness and terror ?

If all you can produce by comparison is a mosque in Athens denied to Moslem thugs from Pakistan/Afghanistan/Albania, then I'd like to hint at your missing sense of proportions and/or humour. I remember quite well those Moslem thugs in Athens who had been smuggled to Greece over Turkey - a big centre of human and drug trafficking - engaged in robberies, drugs, violence, cheating and other things that Moslems invariably bring to civilized countries. They fill Greek jails. On one occasion in May last year the police intervened and in a melee a policeman was said to have torn apart a piece of paper which a Moslem thug kept hidden in his pocket. It turned out to be a verse from the Quran. Do you know what happened ? The Moslems from all over Athens came to demonstrate (= loot, burn and destroy cars and property) against "desacration" of the symbol of their Satanic faith and the riots lasted for many days.

Nowadays the quarters of Agios Panteleimonas where most of those Moslem parasites concentrate is one of the most degraded and dangerous quarters in the city with rapes, robberies, drugs and violence on a daily basis making life for the defenceless locals unbearable. But who cares about such trifles? The most important thing is the loud propaganda argument about the "intolerant" Greeks who don't allow "poor" Moslem drug dealers and bandits to have a mosque - for 400 years the symbol of Greece's oppression and humiliation - to worship their Arabic Satan and spread his destructive message of jihad and reconquest of Greece !

> I also consider them as not right. The pity is, you do not consider them.<

The pity is that when you see a gang of Moslem murderers and robbers armed to the teeth you close your eyes and open them only when an assaulted kafir throws a stone in self-defence to stop the gang from committing more crimes and shout "Behold the evil-doer!" When reminded of the real situation you tell me that throwing a stone at the Moslem gangster armed to the teeth is "not right" !

> I do not like the way you discuss, as you neglect totally other nations' crimes. That is not right!

And shall I like the way you keep white-washing the real criminals and evil-doers by blaming the victims and comparing apples to oranges ? Just reconsider your ridiculous case of mosques not built in Greece (there are plenty of them in Western Thrace where the Turkified Pomacs live ) contrasted to the government-sponsored campaign to terrorize, ruin and destroy the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constaninople , one of the oldest Christian instituion in this world !

And still you will give me a lecture on what is right and what is wrong and what I shall and shall not neglect ?

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to "In the right extent ..." by Ianus

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2021 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)