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Turkish historical solipsism

Reader comment on item: Does Turkey Still Belong in NATO?
in response to reader comment: SAKHARYA RİVER

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), May 1, 2009 at 16:14

berk akk wrote :

"So what happened on November 14th, 1914 ? Do you know? No ?! ... "

>I am not in favor of historical otoman empire holy war .<

You are "not in favor of historical otoman empire holy war"? ... Remarkable mentality ! So now what you are not in favour of mustn't exist , needn't it ? I understand now why you are so 'knowledgeable' about history. It's your right as a solipsist after all to declare what "really" happened and what didn't happen according to your wisdom - 'If I am not in favour of these facts, they don't exist."

>But what I see around that time is 250 000 dead young turkish soldiers on their homeland GELİBOLU and death of young australian ,newzellanders many others .Is gelibolu again a tale?<

As the Turks relate it sure it is !!! One detail, e.g. Capitaine F.J. Deygas , in his excellent book of recollections and of scientific research " L'armée d'Orient 1915-1919È, [Paris 1932] describes the old battlefields he saw three years after the last ANZAC soldier left the Straits. Sailing in November 1918 through the Straits he was horrified by what he saw :

"The 'good' Turks had done their best to erase all the traces of the war. They have desecrated and demolished the cemeteries. They have smashed all the crosses that were guarding over the last resting place of 50 000 French and English soldiers fallen in this cursed corner of the land called Gallipoli." (p.286)

The cemeteries were restored by the Allied after they had occupied Constantinople and the Straits in November 1918. They took care of them until 1922 when the Greeks, who were in charge of the area, had to leave as a result of their defeat in Asia Minor.
Repeated looting was forbidden by Kemal as he hoped to get major political and propaganda advantages from Britain and France in the foreseeable peace negotiations. He had had formal and very friendly relations already since 1921. Besides, Gallipoli is seen as the only place where the Turks won in WWI. They play down the decisive role of Liman von Sanders and the Germans, of course. Wherever they lost - as in the Caucasus - they reacted in their usual way , tha is that of 1916 in Gallipoli. There are no monuments to the Russians and Turks and Armenians in Sarykamysh or elsewhere.

So again unless one knows the real story, the Turks will never tell us that their grandfathers were ghouls (in literal meaning) and that most probably there is not a single ANZAC grave that hasn't been desecrated and looted by them. Instead the turks will sing the self-glorifying song - their favourite.

"caliph declared jihad on the Entente. It became Turkey's next - but not last - holy war "

> Do u know where did this caliph and his dynasty went after war? <

Which war do you mean? WWI ended in 1918. After the Moudros cease-fire Mehmed VI stayed in Constantinople under the Allied protection. What was wrong about it? Before the Germans had been his protectors. Now the Germans' enemies controlled him. The caliph signed the Sévres peace treaty of August 1920.

>who sheltered holy wariours? IANUS ,Turkey never declerad holy war .....<

"Turkey never declared a holy war"? ...That's a historical discovery worth Ataturk's , the "discoverer's" of the super-Turkish sun language! ALL wars by Turkey were holy wars, Turk! The Crimean war, the 1877-1878, the Balkan wars were all holy wars! In 1914 the caliph declared jihad on the Entente. Sure, as most things in Turkey's history, it turned out to be a farce as kafiri Germany and later kafiri Bulgaria! were the allies of jihadist Turkey fighting the infidels.

"So refute the following comment "Ghazi Mustafa Kemal's jihad" IN DETAIL !"

>I just read your comment.From begining to end it is full of wrongs.I can refute innumberable ways the items of jihaidst kemal claim.<

Details, please!

"ı have tackled the issue in many of my comments and I don't want to repeat the same over and over again"

>Due to this i can not enter a refutation study.<

Have you posted a refutation study even before reading what you have to refute ? ... If it's too log , send it in chunks!

"the title in September 1921 after the victory at the Sakharya river."

> Ianus,holly dynasty was escaped to his collaborators and Ataturk was in a battlefield.<

The last caliph Abdul Mejid was deposed in March 1924 and was expelled from Turkey. What battlefields was Kemal (no Ataturk! He assumed that name 'Ataturk' 10 years after abolishing the caliphate!) in at that time ? The battlefields of illicit wine cornering to satisfy his progressing alcoholism?

> The battlefield in middle of turkey.funy.What kind of jihad is this? who is who?<

Kemal is "gazi" - Allah's defender against the Christian Greek dogs.

In his book "Mustapha Kémal ou la Mort d'un empire" Jacques Benoist-Méchin describes in some details what sort of jihad it was. He also gives a relatively exact translation of gazi title - "The destroyers of Christians". It is exactly what Kemal did - he destroyed Christians wherever he could them as his monologue over the burning ruins of Smyrna quoted there demonstrates. He was a cold-blooded, fanatical and revengeful mass murderer as every true gazis -starting with Osman Gazi - are!

"What did the Greeks do 40 km from Anakara" , you will ask ? To explain it shortly - after the ceasefire of Moudros Turkey was obliged to meet a number of important political and military stipulations and make concessions. The sultan Mehmed VI was the guarantee that the Turks would respect these obligations. Kemal was the sultan's officer and as such was sent to Anatolia. But instead of disbanding the remaining armed forces he started building them up. Instead of following the sultan's order he started disobeying him. He started exterminating the Greeks in Pontus. The Allied recognized Armenia. Kemal declared war on it. The Allied fought the Bolsheviks, Kemal made friends with them and relied on their decisive help. He sent a letter asking the sultan to become the head of the insurgency movement. As a reply the sultan sent him an order to come back immediately to Constantinople. When he refused a civil war followed with the Caliph's Army men slaughtering Kemalists and Kemalists slaughtering the followers of the caliph. The sultan signed the Sèvres peace treaty which Kemal refused to recognize. The sultan became his mortal enemy and issued a death fatwa gainst Kemal (It's how he was forced to apostasize to 'secularism' , first in secret of course and then openly - to save his life). Now in this bloody inter-Turkish drama the Greeks were acting as the armed hand of the Entente to see to it that the Turks complied with the stupulations of the agreements they had signed. The war was NO Greek-Turkish war. It was first the Entente-Kemalist war and then the Kemalist-Caliph civil war. (I am waiting for its continuation of it in its secularist vs. Islamist form). The Greeks were sent to capture Ankara -the Kemalist capital- and force them to accept the peace treaty signed by their sultan and caliph. It was no aggression, no war of indpendence. It was a legitimate measure in the circumstances to force a valid international treaty signed the Entente. The Kemalists fighting the caliphs saw it now as a jihad against the hated Greek Christian dogs coming to overthrow Islam in Anatolia. He who destroyed them became their supreme holy warrior of Allah -Ghazi Mustafa Kemal , Allah's darling!

Submitting....

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