New defenders of Turkey against her old friends
Submitted by Ianus (Poland), May 11, 2009 at 16:20
berk akk wrote :
> Yes we can take 40 nomad yoruk arbitrarily as an example and see result.<
The results are easily foreseeable. They will praise Ataturk along your lines, extol Islam , deny the Armenian genocide and accuse the US ... It's the same all over Turkey -nomadic or urban. To imagine that 76 000 000 people can be so uniformly brainwashed and pre-programmed like lie machines ... Frankly, reading your answers I often have the impression a machine has automatically generated them. By 'your' I mean "you statistical Turks" ...
>same ,take 40 in that polish city see results.<
The results will depend on how you are going to ask these 40 people. In private conversations they will tell you they can't have ham - for Poland traditional , almost indispensable food - for Christmas and Easter. It's too dangerous. In public they will pretend to find everything fine and bright ... for if they did tell the truth, they would be in real trouble. And Turks are violent and revengeful.
> take other 960 see result among them.<
The Turks or Turkified Poles who are the majority in Polonezkoy (960:40), will -just as you - never tell what is rotten there. Unless you know it from other sources, Turkish eulogies and parodies of tolerance are useless.
>public surveys is important . but experiments give only results on their own environment.<
They can give reliable results if you are aware of the tricks and frauds like those consistently applied by the Turks to mislead the naive and the gullible strangers. Hence the best thing is never to trust a Turk when he praises or upbraids anything.
> I had told you an huge international bloody game conducted against all civilisations among the inhabitants of the region including ermenians,turks.<
The bloodiest and vilest player is, of course, Turkey herself. She is after the new big swag including Central Asia(Turan), Baku oil, Nagorno-Karabakh and Northern Caucasus. Those bloody games that are being played inside Turkey with mutinying generals, Ergenekon conspiracy comedy, secularist marches that end with Islamic prayers, the imam as Prime Minister and a Saudi stoodge (Gül) as president of the republic must sooner or later be reflected in international plots and intrigues organized by Turkey's vile and bloodthristy elite.
> Unfortunately you cant see back side.<
It's funny that a person who hasn't seen the most obvious things (like the Turkish jihad in 1914, the lie of the Polish idyll village in Istanbul or Kemal's jihadist past), can so keenly perceive "the backside" of the "huge international bloody game" ? Who has disclosed it for you - "Hürriyet" or the Turkish state TV?
> But For an example who played a role see your own answer:"All more important posts in the Turkish General Staff , artillery , engineering and technical troops, armaments industry, navy and elswhere were taken by German officers and specialists. And this was true also about lesser jobs like commissioned officers, foremen and even factory workers as the Ottoman Empire with c. 90-95% illiteracy had no qualified workforce"
> Execuse me but you disregard opportunist and strategical games when blaming turkey. Not only in the ottoman army but in dynasty ,many players was in head. <
Turkey was playing a big game in 1914 - just as she has been doing since the end of the USSR in 1991. At that time the game begun and conducted by "İttihat ve Terakki" ( The committee of Union and Progress) led to the destruction of the Ottoman Empire. I hope that today's big game of Islamokemlism will lead to very similar results with a Turkish civil war as an aftermath of Turkey's international debacle.
> One would ask what was the business of germans in the dardanels .
The same business the Americans had on the Dardanelles, viz. defending the sick man on the Bosporus against his former friend&savior - the USSR. The Germans were defending Turkey against her erstwhile allies and saviors -France and Britain that had done more than anyone else to save the sick and ungrateful Turk.
> Lets us answer those questions before blaiming Turkey...<
Let's not blame Germany for decisions and actions made and done by Turkey in Turkey's interest. Why did Turkey break neutrality in 1914 in the first place ? Why did she declare jihad on the Entente ? Had the Turks wanted, they would have stayed neutral and just made the best of their neutrality. But no! Turkey had a grand scheme and "the Goeben" and "the Breslau" were a welcome addition to the arsenal made ready to launch the disastrous offensive for "the libration of the Caucasus".
"You have done your best but hopefully any potential reader realizes how counterproductive all your efforts have been. Self-observations is the latest of your tricks not to face unflattering facts about your sweet Ataturkistan."
> I am not trying to falsity you or any reader.I just exhibit an approach.I am nobody here.<
Don't be so modest. You are just a Turkish nationalist hell-bent on whitewashing Turkey and Turkishness and deny any evidence, any facts, any conclusions that might expose your jingoistic superego. This is all Turks are determined to keep glorified. Truth, objective history is nothing they really understand or care about.
>Trying to make some exchange of viewpoints.<
I'd rather call them claims as e. g. you denied to recognize the clear evidence of Kemal's jihad without being able to produce a rational explanation of the available facts. These are no "viewpoints" but Turkish self-serving dogmas that you are trying to sell us.
>My proposals are not trick but a view.I have no reason to make a trick.<
Yes, you do have. You shun and recoil from everything that debunks your sweet myth of Turkishness, of Kemal's sanctity, of your racial and national greatness and , of course, of your Islam! It's very symptomatic that you have NEVER said "OK. I am wrong" or "This is a serious piece of evidence. I can't deny it without exposing my ignorance and ill will " or something like that. It's human to err but Turks seem to think they are better humans than us kafirs and denigrators of holy Turkishness. We can err, they know better. It's again the old Islamic reflex that prevails. Kafirs don't know, Moslems do know.
> I dont expect from you a persuation.
One can only persuade him who is a rational being.
"Now, 13 publishers bring 'Mein Kampf' on the market and you say">That doesn prove a hitler sympaty or other subjects on talk.
lets leave that hitler sympaty subject.Once more ,there is no hitler sypmaty on turkish public ...its nonsense.
"Those in power keep telling them about bad Americans and Jews supporting bad Kurds and the Turks hate the US and Israel more and more"
>all those in power are in direct cooperation with US and israel.<
I saw one of them in Davos ... Imam Erdogan ... Were you in the crowd greeting him at 2 a.m. at the Istanbul airport ?
>If those were against them ,why they still get close relations in each subject.<
Do they ? I hope many a Jew who has seen Turkish flags in Gazastan will reconsider the sense and use of these relations.
> Instead of hate,there is incredible US admirenca among turkish youngs.Living in USA still a super dream here.<
Why wonder when one compares that third world Turkish cesspool with American liberties and opportunities? But still even the youth know that it's the US to blame for the Kurdish state in Northern Iraq - a thron in every Turkish ar...And the hard fact is that contrary to what you write Turkey is the most anti-American country in the world. As the author Arnaud de Borchgrave remarks : "It is difficult to detect the difference between what Osama bin Laden said in his 19 audio and videotapes since September 11, 2001, and what some Turkish journalists write. If anything, the Turks outvenom bin Laden."
Anyway, some of the quotes he gives remind me strangely of what you have written.
"A movie (The valley of the wolves) is made -the most expenisve ever Turkish movie - with heavy jingoistic and anti-Semitic messages. It becomes the most popular Turkish movie ever ... But you have your "self-observations" that "prove" the contrary , don't you ... ?"
>I didnt know books,movies would make bad sense to westerns in terms of "fameous "freedom of speech.<
Freedom of speech in Turkey? Another farce! In Turkey only that kind of speech is allowed which suits the ruling clique at agiven moment. Why there are no Armenian films about Turkey in Ataturkistan ? That would be a real proof of Turkish freedom of speech! By the way, do you know that c. 840 websites are banned in Turkey ? ... Traditional Turkish liberty to silence free speech - as we know.
> Yes it is popular and watched by action film lovers.If you ask watchers most can not tell one word about antisemiticy they learned from the movie. It is only sensivitiy of toucy jews..On the contrary ,some watchers including me ,get messages about whom provakes Turkish people against kurds,usa,jews...<
Again your self-observations overriding reality ?
Jews tend to be oversensitive to anti-Semitism and they have to be ! Last time they didn't take anti-Semites seriously enough they were wiped out in the most unmetaphoric way. So it's worth considering what some of them think of recent Turkish anti-Semitic exploits :
" A Turkish movie featuring American actor Gary Busey as a Jewish U.S. army doctor who cuts out the organs of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib and sells them to wealthy foreign clients is breaking all box office records in Turkey..."
" The Busey character, listed only as The Doctor, is far removed from the Jewish stereotype in both appearance and manner, but hardly a credit to his heritage. At one point, he scolds American soldiers for shooting up the wedding guests "because it ruins their organs." In another scene, a group of apparent organ buyers includes a man clearly dressed as an Orthodox Jew."...
"Have you realized that so far you have NOT expressed a single critical thought about Turkey and on the contrary have consistently tried to discourage me from expressing them. "
>Till now ,i triyed to answer you.Please do not evaluate those answers as an obstruction to your thought expression.I am sory if that resulted in you.Of course we can talk any critics about anything.<
Can we? I have the impression that you are very displeased with my criticisms and crave after eulogies of your favourite angelic Turkishness.
> Even in my family.I get tired of discususing with them.Please do not hesitate to express your thoughts.We can discuss each in detail under personal recognisation of life phylsopy.<
How do you mean "tired of discususing with them"? Are they more PC than you ?
As to life philosophy, I am afarid that you have been imbued with a totally erroneous one - as always in Ataturkistan. That you recognize, nay identify yourself with this miscreant despotism is really a treason to and mockery at philosophy.
>I observe evils on all part of world not only in turkey.<
So disclose Turkey's evils now! It's your chance to do me a big favor if you can. And please be specific and avoid too general and watered down statements.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (526) on this item
Comment on this item
You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes