All roads lead to Allah for Turks and Saudis
Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Apr 30, 2009 at 17:21
BERK AKK wrote :
> 1-Percentages of muslims in S.arabia and Turkey proves what? <
Total islamization of both with all its nasty implications. What other conclusion can I draw?
> Are they same country you mean?<
Similar. They are striving to achieve the same Islamic goal with different means. The Saudis spread Islam with traditional means -mosques, bribes, beheadings, intimidations. The Turks have added to the traditional ways they don't reject their new potent camouflage weapon - the so called "secularism". Mark it -Turkey is not 99,8% secular as one might expect from so proudly self-proclaimed 'secularist' state after 80 years of forced secularisation. It's 99,8% Moslem ! The more secular it becomes the more Islamic it is.
> I will not write the percentages of christ in Tansania or kenya or any other african country and make a comparision with Poland or germany.<
Why ? I am ready to admit similarities between Kenya and Poland and think about differences. Why refuse to learn something new ?
> I advice you to take more care the meanings of "similiarity" and"differences".<
I tend to distinguish between the two and do my best to ascertain this or that according to the case under consideration.
>1.a Turkey has large scale business ,military ,tourism relations with israel<
There are more than 100,000 Turkish citizens living happily in Saudi Arabia. Israel exports an annual $1.5 billion in goods and services to Turkey, and imports more than $1 billion. All in all $ 2,5 bln. At the same time the current trade volume between Turkey and Saudi Arabia stands at 5.5 billion USD and Gül, who worked between 1983 and 1991 as an expert at the Islamic Development Bank in Jeddah, wants to see $ 10 billion reached by the end of the next year.
But what stands behind those numbers looks much more intriguing. The problem of huge Saudi money in Turkey is much deeper than what the Turkish media are allowed or ready to admit. There is a very interesting article on Saudi financial ascendancy and political influence in Turkey.
Most probably c. 15 bln unaccounted Saudi dollars has been circulating in Turkey since 2002 buying power, people and Turkish hearts and minds across the country. It is this Saudi money that has financed the AKP success story and the growing Islamic business sector from 2002 on. [ As an AKP official said : "Before the 2002 election, there were rumors that an AKP victory would lead to an infusion of $10-$20 billion, mostly from Saudi Arabia. It looks like the rumors came true."] . More than $ 1 bln of Imam Erdogan's fortune seem to have in part Saudi roots. All present Turkish political decisions, anti-American and anti-Jewish sentiments etc. must be understood in this double context of total Islamization and Saudi financing and expected rewards from the Turkish cliente. E.g. - the news that Ankara won't allow Israel to use Turkish airspace in attacking Iran . "Turkey would never signal its willingness to accept such an air strike by the Israeli Air Force (IAF) and would immediately shoot down any aircraft violating its own space en route to Iran [...] a neighbor and important trading partner" of Turkey.
>1.b Turkey has secular constitution<
I once heard such a parable. Today's Turks look like the Christian churches they have changed into mosque. Just scratch the whitewshed wall and the old icon will immediately shine through.
> 1.c Turkey has diferent islamic philosopy then s.arabia.( most important) <
Do the Turks read different qurans fom their Saudi brethren ? Don't the Turkish Qurans contain 8.55 e.g. ?
> 1.d Different in public tradition <
Islam is the common ground for the two to stand upon. After all both belong to the Organization of Islamic Conference where a Turk is Secretary General.
> 2-Unfortunately your are wrong that i went to S.arabia.I am not intending to leave the country for any reason other than friendship,bussines and natural tourism.I love poles,oceans,winds,rain and such.<
No love of the desert, camels, turbans, public beheadings ? Already 100 000 Turks live in Saudi Arabia. Why not join the growing Turkish comunity or at least your local Turkish-Saudi Friendship society ?
>3-I am an amateur evolutionary scientist.I do searches on human evolution.<
And a professional Moslem ! ... What a queer combination ! If successful you may be the first human to find a way how to engineer a unicorn !
> Professional engineer ,not an imam.<
Specializing in construction of mosques perhaps ? Have you never been tempted after a Friday prayer in the local mosque to get closer to Allah , to be guided by Him more than before? After all it's what all Moslems desire to do, don't they?
> I am against human populations ,they are same species.<
Wolves and sheep are mammals too. Yet it's the wolves who preach most ardently against enmity between mammals. For sheep this doctrine is sure suicide and total folly. And rightly so!
> What i cant understand is your seeking for a justice of 1000 years human history .who is guilty ,who is innocent.a supreme court and you are judge.<
Unfortunately enough I can't use you, Moslem, as a witness. You know Moslems' testimonies are useless in a kafiri court of justice. They lie too much and Islam makes their brains quite dysfunctional.They are also useless in a shari'a court of justice where whatever nonsense they may say will be accepted against a most reasonable defense of a kafir. [ Just compare the Turkish answers here to see my point- no irony included.] Moslems are universally useless and no doubt the most farcical blunder in mankind's evolution.
> 3-I believe Races,religions ,nationalities are part of human culture and will dissapear or will evolve not in far future as those are had been evolved up to now.<
... And will be replaced by the Turkic superrace from which they all have evolved according to the Ataturkish theory of everything , what ?
> 4-I am here by a chance and I have thankful of daniel pipes forum and ready to quit upon any request. Not interested about fatwaas.
What's wrong with fatwas according to your evolutionary understanding of them ?
> 5-I have met thousands of perfect people from all over the world .I also met liars.You also possibly met many turks of such kind.Me too.Personally I dont make distinction between people in terms of their nationalities.I evalute them for their personal approaches.Turk,german,english,arab doesnot make any sense to me other than a human culture.<
Sounds fine, PC , sweet ...until the moment you meet an Armenian or a Greek who remind you of a few nasty things on your conscience... and then your sweet false smile disappears and your suave and bland words change into a volley of Turkish jingoistic slogans and the old grey wolf wakes up in you ... I know that sort of transformation. I have met such Turks too. In fact they seem to predominate among in the subspecies Homo Islamicus Ataturcanus.
>6-I feel the innocence in your mind .I just request to get some more amicable words.<
No one who refuses to accept the unpleasant truth gets a single amicable word from me.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (529) on this item
Comment on this item
You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes