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Rational and irrational agreements

Reader comment on item: Does Turkey Still Belong in NATO?
in response to reader comment: agreements

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Apr 23, 2009 at 15:15

berk akk wrote :

> i personally agree in many terms like not forcing any doctrine in schools. I have my kid 5 years old and i try to protect him such items.It is for sure inacceptable that teaching kids as enemies of other nations or beliefs and growing them teror minded personals.<

How so? Do you agree that Turkish system of education produces such fascist personalities?

>You seems to me well educated and researcher personal <

Thanks ! It's the first time a Turk says something like that to me. All the rest tell me I know nothing about Turkey, I am an idiot, an ignoramus , an imbecile, a total moron and must shut up or else ... I understood it very well. The poor Turkish megalomaniacs had no other choice if they didn't want face and argue about serious and unpleasant arguments.

> But I wonder if you are a bit of willing to find at least a small common point between yours and mine? İs it so dificult ,sir ?<

There can be only one common ground on which we can stand - rationality. If I am correct , don't evade the point but accept it. If I am wrong, prove I am wrong. If you can't, admit it. And first and foremost face and consider the relevant evidence and nothing but the evidence. Reject beforehand Allah's and Ataturk's word of honour, sweet Turkishness, narcissist self-indulgence and national and Islamic megalomania. They don't make things true or false but definitely do hinder and stifle the truth.

These are my terms. But, frankly, from what you have shown so far I am afraid I demand too much from you. You are not after a rational agreement, but after an irrational one. These irrational agreements are most common today and they are made on the basis of respect for nonsense, appreciation of falsehood , honouring inane but sweet sounding phrases, admiration for the irrational and the unproven, fear of offending a highly esteemed absurdity. By the way, it is what is the most essential part of the Oriental mind that starts dominating in the west as well with all its devastating and demoralizing effects.

>I frankly say my opinions.<

Are you certain they are 'your' opinions and not opinions of other people over whose credibility and veracity you have no control? I have met the same type of "argument', the same tricks, escapes, jumps and twists many many times before on different forums where there were Turks and Moslems. And the most arresting (I wanted to say "nasty") thing was to me how uniform, how unindividual , unvarying the opinions expressed by Turks are! What lack of imagination! What deficient ingenuity and freedom of thought! What disgusting conformism! ... But on the other hand when one considers that one is dealing with Moslems and disciples of Ataturk, then one relaizes how helpless these people necessarily must be in term of intellectual development, how damaged and dystrophied theirimagination and logical faculties must be after all these years of violent and uninterrupted indoctrination! The double rubbish of Islam and Kemalism kills any sense of proportion, of common sense and of wit. Critcial thinking under such conditions is as impossible as tuplips during the Polar Night.

>But i cant understand "you are this,you are that,omg...are we monsters?<

Do you identify yourself with the things I have described ? Yes, you do ! ...Then what do you want ? After exterminating a nation you wish me to call you sweet flatteries - " Oh! All Turks are ghazis!" , "Great sons of Ataturk!" "Freedom fighters under Islam's banners!" "Secularists without fear and reproach!" ....???

> if so please tell me so i stop writing to u.<

Face the evidence and then you will know why I apply the vocabulary! Or come back to my definition of rational agreement.

> Modern Turkey is based on universally accepted concepts.<

E.g. ? "There is no Turkey but "modern" Turkey and Ataturk is its god and prophet ?

> It is a huge country ,many different nationals living inside.we turks under worst conditions . <

Nothing new. In the Ottoman Empire the Turks had a hard time too. But the reason was their lousy work ethics and rotten domestic habits. They prefered to spend time in a coffee-houses discussing how the hard-working Armenains and Greeks were becoming richer and richer, while they - the ruling master race were becoming poorer and poorer and how to revert it.

> İf u dont believe i can send you picures here from around.<

Where are you living ? Pontus ? Paphlagonia? You can send me a link if you have any. Say , at Photobucket or elsewhere?

> Best parts of turkey occuiped by georgians,abhazians çerkez,many other.<

Occupied? Or perhaps they work better than the Turks? The old Ottoman story recurs?

> In our history and in today we have nothing to to with jews.<

"We"? ... What did the newspapers write about then? Jewish pogroms and expulsions in Thrace in summer 1934 ??? 1955 bloody pogroms in Constantinople. You say "We (Turks) have nothing to do with Jews"? The documents tell us about expulsions of Jews ... whom shal I trust?

> Beside ,turkish public had many helps to jews .They are happily living here.<

"Happily" ? You'll find a comment of mine on "happy Jews" from Turkey.

> Sİnce 40 yeras in my daily life i have heard nothing badly sounds gainst other religions or nationals...<

Are you sure you aren't deaf ? Whatever Turkish forum I inspect I see the same curses and jingoistic insults against other religions and nations. Check Turkish patriotic movies on "YouTube" e.g. and you'll see.

In public the Turks may play the comedy of Innocence Incarnate - the same comedy some Turks have played here. But they will never ever admit anything that shows how wrong Turkey is or may be. Their narcissist superego is stronger than their eyes, ears and logical faculties. They will not ask about the truth value of the statements. They have little understanding and appreciacion for it. It's always the criteria of praise and censure that ONLY count for them. What agreement is possible with that kind of people?

> Those demonstrations on TV s are against goverments politicians not to the other public indivuduals.<

Demonstrations in Turkey?...It's the old story recurrin anew. None of them are spontaneous. All are ordered, organized and controlled from above. It's so typical for every police state. By the way, G. Horton remarks that Turkish massacres have the same character. They never happen spontaneously. Given the absolute character of power in Turkey, no one does such things "spontaneously". It's one more imprtant factor when one considers the recurrent atrocities committed by the Turks.

> Secret agrrements on 2nd ww is historians subjects<

I wish they were. Selling chrome to Germany made many people rich. Shifting sides in 1944 saved the grey wolf from being duly skinned and thus slowly paved the way for the Cyprus tragedy of 1974. History is far away but it's not dead. It affects us just like radiation that originated millions of years ago affects us. To see this history that never dies one can travel to Northern Cyprus and watch the ruins of churches and cemeteries destroyed by the Turks. At home in your garden you may discover tomorrow or next year an Armenian skull smashed by a scimitar in your garden tomorrow. It's also history that comes back.

> but as individual i cry for innocent people died anywhere in the world.<

But as I have noticed not so much when these individuals happen to be Greeks or Armenians or Bulgarians slaughtered by your grandparents, what ? Clever selective philanthropy !

> PLEASE dont try to say Turks or a mufti created and responsible for dead millions in ww2.<

No, they are responsible for the genocides during and after WWI. It's more than enough, isn't it?

Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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