Ianus seems to know about everything negative on Turkey ... I wish I knew !!! ... The case of Constantinople 6-7.09. 1955
Reader comment on item: Does Turkey Still Belong in NATO?
Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Apr 21, 2009 at 10:58
Isaac Haskiya wrote :
> 1- My person is none of you business. .<
Really ?... A Turkish reserve officer living in Denmark and preaching on Turkey's virtues and excellency, who "refutes" a lengthy argument with a sweeping ayat of his ... That person should be none of my business? ... Don't you think that it might be rather much of my business to learn who and why spreads this Turkish propaganda rubbish and tries to whitewash Turkey by brainwashing the forum?
A general question might be who could become an officer in despotic Ataturkestan? A Turkish skeptic ? ... Improbable. ... A son to father who slaughtered Greeks and Armenians in Smyrna and Pontus together with Kemal? Most probably!
> You don´t know me. I discard your first introductory lines! <
From your sketchy and dogmatic lines below I have the impression you have discarded the remaining lines too, Kemalist janissary!
>2- Mustafa Kemal transformed Turkey from a "caliphate" into a a republic.<
Calling a wolf a cow doesn't make the wolf produce milk, as an Oriental saying might go. Names and clothes were changed, true! The old habits and faith have remained. Kemal himself used to live in the sultan's palace and behaved like a sultan without the name assassinating opponents, playing the comedy of 'opposition parties' appointed by him, creating his own religious personality cult, his own janissary corps, his own hagiography.
> Not a perfect democracy, of course, <
Turkey a "democracy" ? This is a joke, isn't it ? It's a despotic police state that Kemal recreated. Nothing new for Turkey anyway, only much more efficient than the old derelict and rotten caliphate.
> during these years of transformation since the equation sultanate on Monday, a republic on Tuesday does not exist.<
Whatever may be preached on other days of the week , at any event Friday in Turkey belongs to Islam. The Moslems in the mosques are as numerous in 'secularist' Ataturkestan as nowhere else in the whole dar al-Islam !
> Thus both multi-party elections and trade unions came later on.<
... just like the 99,8% Islamization rate.
> 3- I was in Istanbul during September 6/7. I do not know of any Army participation in these acts of vandalism,<
What were doing doing there? ... But wait ... perhaps you can identify yourself or recognize some of the swag you carried off ? This was a great day for Turkey ! True, not as spendid as Smyrna in 1922 , but still one can be proud of being Ataturk's disciple marching on his blood-stained road of Turkish glory !
You say you don't know of any army participation and as a reserve officer you were part of the army , weren't you?... Or perhaps you don't want to say what you do know and what General Sabri Yirmibeşoğlu, the then " head of the Special War Department and later as the head of the Intelligence Department of the General Staff confessed to Fatih Güllapoğlu, a journalist, during an interview in 1991. In his exact words, the general said: "…[T]ake the Sept. 6-7 incidents, it also was a Special War [Dept.] job. And it was a magnificent event. Let me ask you; was it not a magnificent event." (Interview published in the weekly Tempo, June 9-15, 1991, issue 24). And what about the young agent Oktay Engin, who planted the bomb in Thessaloniki? He was smuggled into Turkey by the Turkish Consulate in that city. He was enrolled in İstanbul University's school of law. After graduation he worked in various departments of the police and was finally appointed governor of Nevşehir, a city in central Turkey."
Quite interesting what the Turks confess, isn't it ? But you will deny it as you know better, won't you, and he who is a Turk is so happy, isn't he?
By the way, did you use the bus/truck and "tools" provided by the military to get quickly to the Greek quarters and smash and loot some Greek shops and skulls?
" Municipal and government trucks were placed in strategic points all around the city to distribute the tools of destruction (shovels, pickaxes, crowbars, ramrods and petrol), while 4,000 taxis were requisitioned from the Drivers Association and Motor Vehicle Workers' Trade Union (Şoförler Cemiyeti ve Motorlu Taşıt İşçileri Sendikası) to transport the perpetrators. In addition, flags had been prepared by the Textile Workers' Union (Tekstil İşçileri Sendikası)."
> which are bad enough per se, but calling them "pogrom" is an unjustified extension of the word. Pogroms meaning wanton killings are the speciality of Russia as No. 1 and Poland as a good No.2.<
We had pogroms and nobody is going to deny it. But I can hardly recall of a single night in Polish or Russian history where 4 500 homes were devastated, 3 500 shops and businesses looted, 90 churches and monasteries desacrated and damaged, 36 schools and 3 cemeteries vandalized , two priests burnt alive, 14 other Greeks killed, hundreds of women raped and many thousands of Greeks beaten and then all of it would be represnted as a 'spontaneous' act with the ruling all-powerful military having nothing to do with it.
Indeed, calling it a pogrom "is an unjustified extension of the word". It was something more - a religious cleansing carried out by 'secularist' warlords , as the cases of forced circumcision might suggest . Ian Fleming, the James Bond novelist, who witnessed it called it "The Great Riot of Istanbul".
> 4- The nominal phrase "Kemalist Janisseries" and a Pan-Turkic Empire belong in political science fiction, if any.<
For me "Turkish republic" and "Turkish democracy" are science fiction instead. This is still the old Oriental despotism masquarading in camouflage clothing.
"Kemalist janissaries" and Pan-"Turkic empire" are justified terms. They stress continuity and historical parallels which are so typical for Turkish history. The official version of Kemalism as a total break with the past is quite misleading and self-proclaimed by Kemal, hence not deserving much trust. You may dislike the terms, but prove first the Turkish army plays a stracturally different role from that of the janissary corps in the Ottoman Empire ! The same functions, similar dogmatic ideology, simlar methods - riots (coups d'etat) , blackmail, intrigues, assassinations ... What's so different ? The clothes? The weapons?
> - You are wrong about calling Turkey as "East", especially if you define East as in Iran or Pakistan or China, perhaps. Clear definitions make a better argument than the thousands of words you have used to make your point.<
Which 99,8% Moslem country is not an Eastern country ? What did Turkey contribute to world civilization? Nothing but destruction, massacres, jihad, devshrime , genocide denials... Even "kebab" comes from Persia. All very Eastern!
> To sum things up, you seem to be obsessed with a negative stance towards Turkey.<
Cuique suum ! Everybody his due! Or shall I love the plague perhaps?
> Atrocities in history are not exclusive of Turkey.<
The successful Armenian genocide inspired Hitler. But while Germans repent what their grandparents did to Jews , the Turks jail any Turk that might admit the Turkish crimes. This is so unmistakenly an Islamic attitude and makes Turkish crimes so different from all other crimes.
> Europe itself has heavier heritage in that aspect.<
In every European library you have bookshelves full of books on the bad things we had. In Turkey you have whole libraries and innumerable 'scholars' paid heftily for denying the Turkish crimes and blaming the victims. I don't know if you will be paid for your denial efforts here concerning the Instanbul religious cleansing or the Great Riot of 1955 where you did participate (I'd imagine rather actively). Even if you aren't, you did more than your due here to the eternal denial efforts of the jihadist criminals.
> I repeat what I know about today´s Turkey once again. The Constitution of the Turkish Republic stipulates a laical/secular State.<
The Abdul Hamid's & Young Turkish Constitution of 1908 stipulated equality and freedom , security for ALL subjects of the Ottoman Empire. Under its cloak the Young Turks started a wholesale extermination policy of the Turkish Christians. So don't tell me about the Turkish Constitution and its stipulations. Things in Turkey are as always decided and done by other methods than the sweet words of the constitution. Everyone who is intersted in the Orient knows that.
>The Turkish Armed Forces are its guardians whatever the political party in power. The Constitution is a constant, government a variable.<
We know the official tale ad nauseam. It's interesting what is hidden by it. The Armed Forces are first and foremost the guradians of their power and their own privileges. As a reserve officer you know better than I what sort of privleges are meant - enormous wages for officers , free housing , free quality health care, hefty pensions etc. etc. You may call it "secularism" , "constitution" or whatever. Things the Turkish Army stands for are not so hard to understand and no so unselfish as the official tale implies.
Anyway, the role of today's generals looks very similar to the role played by the pupils of the Bektashi Order in the old days. They were the guardians of Islam and when the sultan was not Islamic enough or not generous enough in guaranteeing and enlarging the privileges of the janissaries , the guardians turned out to be his jailers or executioners.
> I personally wish Turkey the best of luck, whether inside or outside the EU.<
You know my personal wishes for Turkey.
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