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to Amir (and Harrak)

Reader comment on item: How the Cartoon Protests Harm Muslims [by Leading to a Separation of Civilizations]
in response to reader comment: A challenge for Pat, Howard, hr and Pagan BIBLE and VIOLENCE (thanks Amir)

Submitted by Rashid (Canada), Feb 20, 2006 at 01:32

Amir (and Harrak),

Your discourse is just what is to be expected : ready made cliche-like answers prepared in advance for this type of forum. Many muslims around the world like you have built up such a thick carapace of propaganda that it is impossible to penetrate it, even with the most basic logic. I won't try too hard today though, I know it's futile.

According to the Koran the Bible was more than adequate. The Koran itself says : 5:44- "We (Allah speaks in first person plural) braught down the Torah, and in it Guidance and Light"...5:46- "We gave Him (Jesus) the Gospel with Guidance and Light to confirm the Torah"....5:48- "We gave you (muslims) this book (the Koran) with the Truth, to confirm and authenticate what was already in His hands"...(numerous similar statements are strewn throughout the Koran about Torah and Gospels).
So why a new book ?

You say because the Bible has been corrupted !! yea right ! That's what islamic exegetes and apologists came up with to counter the anticipated old argument "why the new book". This argument has been gnawing at them for a long time ..since the days of El Ghazali and Ibn Rushd (Averroes). And that's the only lame answer they have, with no further explanation, and a lot of cover up and beating around the bush. You got that Jeremiah 8.8 quote pretty fast. Looks like you're well trained by your imams to counter with whatever excuse, no matter how weak and lame.. Sad thing is you swallow it, like every other muslim. That quote has nothing to do with corruption of the Bible. Jeremiah, like a good prophet (endorsed by Allah), is just complaining and admonishing the people to stay away from some scribes who write nasty stuff.

So you, and all those who put forth the corruption argument, say Allah found it necessary to ressue His book (sic), because the one in circulation at the time had been corrupted. It means, according to your logic, the Koran is or should be exactly the same as the original Bible. I say exactly because if Yahweh = Allah, then the books should be identical. God being perfect and all knowing would'nt suffer one iota difference.

If I may put it another way, still following your logic, if the Bible had'nt been corrupted, you'd all be Jews or Christians, since Koran = original Bible. That's preposterous you'd say, of course. But you can't have both ways.

Here is something not from the Bible :
Koran 5:32 - For the children of Israel We have written this : "He who kills an innocent man is like someone who killed all men, he who saves one man is like one who saved all men. This is the word of Allah ! plagiarized straight from the Jewish Talmud ! Are you going to tell me the Jewish Talmud has been corrupted ? All 30,000 pages of it. Or may be you'll say The Talmud copied it from the Koran ! Fat chance. The Talmud predates the Koran by centuries. The best you can come up with is : it's a coincidence ?

And this :
Koran 7:40 - "All those who deny our signs .... will not enter the Garden (paradise) before a camel goes through the hole of a needle"... What a clumsy copy of Luke 18:25

Truth is Mohammed was illiterate. Could'nt read nor write [though he had a silver tongue, great gift for speech like Mussolini or Hitler. He was a fierce fighter and leader of people]. He was "told" a lot of biblical and other stories by Jews and Christians who were engaged in proselytizing the pagans in that area. Having heard so many stories, it's only natural that he would get many things mixed up. When they mocked him for his many distortions, he turned violent.

About the killing of the Canaanites and the people of Jericho :
You got that pretty fast too. Is that story from the corrupt part of the Bible, or from the uncorrupted part ?? Again, you can't have it both ways. If that story is "currupted", then you can't use it since it is false by definition. If it is not corrupted, then it has the blessing of Allah (since you maintain Allah=Yahweh and Original Bible=Koran).

That story is true. According to the Bible the killing was ordered by God in order to free the land for the Israelites, and once installed, that they not be contaminated by pagan practices. The killing was ordered just that once : one time and one specific people. There is no other such order in the entire Bible.

The violence in the Bible often referred to is just honest history of people behaving like people. There is no cover up of the sex, violence and other misdeeds that people engage in. In the Koran, however, there is a standing open ended order from Allah to kill unbelievers and those who deny Allah and his messenger, an open order to conquer and subdue all mainkind. An open ended order for all time ! We are still suffering the consequences today.

Think about that !

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