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Mansoor: You have flattened me and sent me back to the future.

Reader comment on item: Britain's Encounter with Islamic Law
in response to reader comment: You are flat!!

Submitted by Plato (India), Mar 15, 2008 at 12:59

Mansoor, you wrote:

>> I understand the pain, when Respectable Muslim Maulanas and wise debater like Zakir Naik uncover the baseless beliefs. . Ironically, you can only spit out your hatred against the above people but you have nothing to prove. <<

Mansoor, I was pained too to discover that the Great Debater Zakir Naik has no answer to even a question he himself raised and tried to answer. Please go to his site and read the whole answer

Question:

The Qur'an mentions in several places that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days but in Surah Fussilat it says that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days. Isn't this a contradiction? The same verse also says that the earth was created in 6 days and then later on the heavens were created in 2 days. This is against the Big-Bang theory that the heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.

………….

On the face of it, it seems that these verses of the Qur'an give the initial impression that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days.

Allah says in the beginning of this verse that those who exploit this information contained in this passage to raise doubts about its authenticity are equally interested in promulgating blasphemy and denying His unity. Allah is telling us that in course of time, there will emerge unbelievers who will make use of this apparent contradiction.

Read the underlined sentence. Instead of answering the contradiction he charges those who raise this question with blasphemy. This will floor any Muslim but infidels like me know what we are dealing with is a sophisticated charlatan. Is it hatred to point out the dishonesty that is evident in this answer? Allah has lost count of the number of days He took to create the universe. That is impossible as Allah has a perfect memory. So anyone who questions Allah's memory lapse is a blasphemer. Zakir Naik to Allah's rescue!

>> Zakir Naik, Dr. Israr Ahmed, Ahmed Deedat etc. are those people who made every disbeliever silent and also made them exit out of discussion with utmost shame<<

You read how Zakir Naik deals with uncomfortable questions about the Koran – call the question blasphemy. The disbeliever and believer is silenced.

Ahmed Deedat has a nice little trick to show that he won a debate. When his opponent is speaking there are subtiles scrolling almost constantly saying that what the debater is saying is wrong or a lie or some such thing. Deedat has won the debate!

I have no familiarity with Israr Ahmed, so I will refrain from commenting on his debating skills. But if Naik and Deedat are anything to go by then I have a feeling he would have also shamed his opponents using some such tactic. There is no shame in such an exit, what is shameful is the underhand tactics used to win a debate. We see this all the time with Muslims. They want victory for Islam at any cost, good manners and ethics be damned.

>>Internet is packed with the evidence of what I am saying. The above people talk with solid references which can't be denied. Your distress is visible because you are saving yourself from the heat of this debate with vaccumed logics.<<

Mansoor, I suggest you deal with the evidence on Danielpipes instead of getting lost in the worldwide web. There is enough evidence here to last you a lifetime of study. You have been given solid references here too but you seem not to notice them. You have glued yourself to evidence from Zakir Naik and others which give you bogus references like – Murice Bucaille, Keith Moore etc. You use the internet so google their names and study what some critics have to say about them and what they have written.

Yes, I am distressed as you say. You refuse to consider any evidence I give you. You refuse to give any direct answers to the questions I have raised. You divert attention from any topic that is raised hoping you can catch me off guard. It is getting a bit tiresome but I will persist anyway because you are a very typical example of the end product of Islamic education and exposing it for what it is, if not a pleasure, is not a chance I want to miss. It is a kind of dawa I am doing.

You bring the mindset of a Muslim indoctrinated by the Islamic education system which turns a blind eye to anything it does not want to see. The science in the Koran is complete nonsense science discovered only after infidel scientists make real discoveries.

Western scientists who want to make a quick buck concoct science out of references in the Koran to bees, lamp, light, clot, dust, Allah's days and so on and eager Muslims dejected at the dismal performance of Muslim science take comfort from the funny science revealed to them in the Koran by those dishonest scientists.

The Koran is thus used to crush the flame of inquiry present in young minds by not only maulanas who have never looked beyond the pages of Islam's holy books but western scientists who should know better.

>>Hindu religion is good to see, but not to practice. The colors, the decoration, the processions, the rituals, the celebrations all are fake and man designed fantasies and nothing more than that....<<

Oh Mansoor, what you wrote above just confirmed that you and the Maulanas who taught you are without a clue to the Hindu culture. Those boisterous revellers taking part in colourful processions and celebrations will be the first to agree with you that it is all fake.

Surprised? Don't be. Do a little research (the internet will do) to find out what Hinduism is all about. You should not have squeezed out the Hindus in Pakistan (nearly 20% at time of partition to the 3-5% now). You could have learned a lot from them, especially about religious tolerance. You would have learned that Hinduism is not just good to see but also to practice.

Unlike Islam which is neither good to see nor practice. We see men in their uniform of long beards and knee-length pyjamas, women in mind-deadening black from head to toe and looking sadly out at the world from two small holes in the fabric. The Muslims practice irritating dawa, animal sacrifices, wife-beating, the list is endless. The Maulanas were afraid to expose you to Hinduism.

>> The colors, the decoration, the processions, the rituals, the celebrations all are fake and man designed fantasies and nothing more than that....

[10:27] As for those who commit evils, the recompense of each evil shall be similar to that evil, and disgrace shall cover them. For them, there is none to save from Allah. Their faces will seem to be covered with layers of a dark night. Those are the people of the Fire. Therein they shall live forever<<

You had me scratching my head when you switched from talking about the fantasies of the Hindus to Koranic ayat. I was afraid for a moment that while arguing with you I was being regularly flattened with blows to my head without my noticing and had turned it into tomato puree.

It then struck me that your Koran is telling us that these Hindus who are dancing and enjoying themselves in the temples and street processions are committing evil for which Allah has designed some special disgrace and all those idols they danced around will turn against them. Their faces will be darkened and they will be fuel for Allah's fire. Whew. For a moment I thought I had lost the art of coming up with tafsir for Koranic ayat.

>>[10:28] And (be mindful of) the Day when We shall gather them together, then We shall say to those who associated partners with Allah, ―Wait in your place, you and your associate-gods.‖ Then We will cause a split between them, and their associate-gods will say, ―It was not us that you worshipped. [10:29] So, Allah is enough as witness between us and between you. We were totally unaware of your worship.‖ <<

This tafsir was a bit tricky. I had a lot of fun doing this tasfir. It really heated up the puree in my head. Here goes: Allah is saying, be warned of Judgment Day when I, Allah, will get My hands on all you colourful revellers in temples and streets who were singing praises of your gods. I will order you to go stand in line along with your associate gods to await your turn to be judged.

This was a bit of a surprise. Allah admitting the revellers were honouring some kind of gods. I was left wondering who these associate gods are who will be standing among their worshippers. Allah, the great schemer that He claims He is, will then cause a split among the revellers and their associate gods and these little gods will concede that it was not them that the revellers worshipped. So who was it they worshipped? The only other god who is not an associate god is Allah Himself. So were they worshipping Allah after all? Confusion worse confounded!

But I was left wondering whether we have a ‘back to the future' situation here. Allah already having told us of the conversation that will take place in the distant future. Won't the revellers be warned that their idol-gods will disown them. If the revellers read the Koran will they dump their spineless idols. They will find it impossible to do that, as Allah's words are written in stone. The idol worshippers have no way out of this if Allah's words are to come true. You are lucky Mansoor, you are not a reveller for then Allah would have already decided your fate. The Koran is a great book. We already have knowledge of some of the things, including the wordings of some conversations that will happen on judgment day.

Mansoor, why is Allah admitting that those stones and bits of wood had some life in them after all. Why else would He want them to queue up and even schemes to cause a split with their devotees? This aya really took my breath away.

>>Quran warns and declares the fate of the Idol worshipers.<<

Yes the Koran does declare the fate of idol worshippers. Their fate is sealed as Allah has already decided on the drama that will be enacted on judgment day with the idol worshippers and the associate gods as the dramatis personae.

>>Better open your eyes Plato. Time is running short.<<

I know time is running short. But how can I open my eyes when Allah Himself has decided my fate for me as ayat after ayat tell me. You just quoted some which demonstrate Allah already knows exactly what happens on judgment day. What a waste of those millions of years of waiting.

>> It is my sincere advice, identify the truth or be ready for a never ending misery....It is a friendly advice, don't take it as an offense. I have full sympathy with you.!!!<<

Thank you for your kind words and no offence taken. I will need all the sympathy I can get in the never-ending misery that Allah has mercilessly ordained for me. Allah knew before I was born that I would be guilty as charged on judgment day! Unless Muhammad interceded on my behalf of course. But that will entangle us in a back to the future situation. Better the misery of hell than be a part of ‘back to the future' where I won't know whether I am coming or going.

What a glorious judge, is Allah.

Regards

Plato

Submitting....

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