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Masood: Islam gives guidelines for terror. Mumbai is the latest example. Koran 3:151, 9:111

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in response to reader comment: Islam brings happiness and gives solution of problems

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 9, 2008 at 22:53

Masood, you wrote:

>To which problems did Muhammad give solutions. What solution did he give to terrorism? ……..Is it not wonderful that your prophet can reach out from his grave and cause terror in the hearts of pagans?<

Certainly not. No true follower of Mohammad can be happy on death of any innocent person at the hands of terrorists.<<

But my dear Masood, your prophet himself showed great happiness when he heard the news of the murder of people who criticized him, Kaf bin Ashraf, Asma bint Marwan and a few others. Your prophet terrorized people by having his critics murdered.

>>Islam gives complete guideline about war and peace.<<

That is something with which I wholeheartedly agree. In Surah 9 the Koran tells the Prophet (and his followers) to kick aside any covenants they may have with infidels and lie in wait for them and ambush them and murder them. He castigates people who are slow to obey his commands to fight and die (the Bedouin are particularly singled out for opprobrium). In other places Allah tells muslims that they have the strength of two if not ten unbelievers and never to turn and flee.
How to handle the people of the book after hostilities are over is laid out in 9:29

009.120
YUSUFALI: It was not fitting for the people of Medina and the Bedouin Arabs of the neighbourhood, to refuse to follow Allah's Messenger, nor to prefer their own lives to his: because nothing could they suffer or do, but was reckoned to their credit as a deed of righteousness,- whether they suffered thirst, or fatigue, or hunger, in the cause of Allah, or trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers, or received any injury whatever from an enemy: for Allah suffereth not the reward to be lost of those who do good;- [SACRIFICE YOURSELF FOR THE PROPHET]

008.065 , 86 YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah: for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

>>Unfortunately, like other religions (offshoot or cult appeared with twisted explanation and finally brought death to innocent persons ) a cult among Muslims has embraced self-fabricated philosophy ( killing of innocent persons is a kind of Holy war ).<<

Masood, why do you excuse what Islam does by saying that other religions did the exact same. Is not Islam Allah's very own religion and His final words. How can Allah's clear message be misread by His own faithfuls? Your trying to excuse Muslim behaviour by saying other religions also have the same problem brings Islam down to the level of these religions. Why then should anyone follow Islam?

>>Islam never tells to hate and kill somebody because he has different belief.<<

Masood, your madrassa instructor has hidden many aspects of Islam from you. Islam does tell Muslims to hate and kill somebody because he has a different belief. The verses I have quoted below are telling you to hate and kill people because of their belief:

009.033
YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

009.073
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

009.088
YUSUFALI: But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.

009.111
YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

>>Islam never says to go with bombs inside any innocent Jewish home to kill him and his family.<<

Ibn Ishaq the Prophet's first biographer has this to say (Page 369, The Life of Muhammad, by Ibn Ishaq, translated by Alfred Guillaume): The apostle said kill any Jew that falls into your power.' Thereupon Muhayysia Nasud leapt upon Ibn Snayna, a Jewish merchant with whom…..and killed him…' Muslims are asked to kill any Jew who is in their power by the prophet Muhammad who claims to be a mercy to all mankind (are Jews part of mankind or are they pigs as the Koran claims Allah converted some Jews into?).

>> If , you look at history hundred years before, you will rarely find any Muslim attacking innocent Jewish home with a slogan "kill infidels ( innocent Jews, Christians. Pagans… ) where you find.<<

What is so special about a hundred years ago. Muslims are told to fight them in 9:29. they are also told not to be friends with them.

>>First, all non-Muslims should stop guessing about Islamic History or about the Quran on the basis of personal speculations.<<

Is the fact that three of the four rightly guided prophets were killed by other Muslims a matter of personal speculation? Is the fact that the prophets two grandsons were killed by Muslims personal speculation? Is the fact that the prophet's wife and his Caliph Ali fought a war personal speculation? Is the fact that the Prophet had all the adult males of the Banu Quraiza massacred in a single night a matter of personal speculation? Is the fact that the Prophet had several people assassinated for criticizing him a matter of personal speculation?

Dhimmi no more writes,

>>It is very important thing like Mr. Dhimmi many non- Muslim scholars believe and try to convince others as they speculate but it does not become truth. It looks so nonsense to think about validity of Quran when Quran has been in the memory of Muslims and in written form since God started revealing to Mohammad. ( only Quran has this distinction to other scriptures )<<

Having been in the memory of Muslims and in written form does not give it any sanctity. A religious leader who arises today can have his written material without even a dot changed last for ever because of new technology. Does that give it any sanctity?

Dhimmi no more has demonstrated many times on this forum that the has been edited several times. The most obvious are the dots and diacritical marks added to the original version without them. He has shown that there are differences even in the Koran's in circulation today.

>>Islam never commands to kill children, women or old people and those civilians who do not take part in fighting. But there is no Islamic command to kill innocent persons to weak opposition military strength and it does not make sense either.<<

Buddhism does not approve of any killing. Hinduism allows the killing only of combatants. So what is special about Islam. There is in fact a hadith that allows the killing of such people as collateral damage. Also remember that Islam encouraged the taking of women and children as booty to be distributed to the victorious Muslims. For a Muslim women and children are an asset.

>>I know atrocities have been committed by few Muslim commanders but they seem negligible as compared to non- Muslim nations throughout centuries. <<

Why don't you read about what the Prophet did to the Banu Quraiza tribe to see the atrocity committed by him. Also read about what Khalid bin Walid did to people he captured. Will Durant the historian has estimated that between 60 and 80 million Hindus, Buddhists and others were killed by the Muslims during their reign of nearly 700 years in India.

>>Hitler was not a god to make decision about the life of innocent Jews. He was the cause of millions of deaths. <<

Was Muhammad god to allow the massacre of the banu Quraiza?

>>In India, in 2005 Hindu-Muslim clashes caused thousands of deaths of innocent persons. But, we can not blame religion for some person or group-related atrocities.<<

What about the millions of Hindus and Buddhists killed by Muslims in India? I can quote for you passages from Muslim historian their joy at the killings by Muslim kings in India.

>>If, you look at history, you find, non-Muslims have been enjoying freedom under Muslim rule.<<

Let us not go into history. We have the present to tell us whether non-Muslims enjoy freedom under Islamic rule. Consider Pakistan. It had a population of more than 20% which was Hindu at the time of independence. India had a Muslim population of about 12 %. Now the Hindus in Pakistan number less than 5% and the Muslims in India are 15% or more. There is no law in India that prevents a Muslims from taking up the highest office of the country. In Pakistan only a Muslim can be President. Take Saudi Arabia, can anyone even bring in his own scriptures into that country?

>> Muslims defended their freedom of worship, honor, life at the cost of their own lives. You can read the statements of Jews. Non-Muslims could ask their questions to the caliph or ruler of that time.<<

Why does not Islam give that same right to unbelievers? What does 9:29 tell Muslims to do? Reading the statements of Jews about Islam's tolerance is meaningless as the Koran itself asks Muslims to fight them until they submit or pay the humiliation tax, jiziya. It tells Muslims that Islam should overcome all other religions: 009.033
YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

>>Once, a Pagan came to Caliph Ali, holding two skulls in his hand. He asked Caliph, you Muslims believe that God gives torment of fire to those who do not believe in Him. Caliph said, yes, …..Do you think that he is unable to create torment which is invisible to human eye but actually it is happening. That Pagan guy converted to Islam.

Even in India, During Muslim reign, one Pagan came to a Muslim saint and asked him that you, Muslim, believe that devil is made of fire and how could a fire can affect another fire?................. He asked that devil can not be punished by throwing into fire as he was made of fire and fire can not affect another fire. This man was also made of soil so why did he cried with pain when he was hit by a lump of soil. That pagan embraced Islam.<<

These two stories tell us what kind of stuff is fed into Muslims at their madrassas. They might get consolation prizes at a competition for tall tales.

andard to bring peace and happiness in an individual and overall in the whole society ). There is no exception which can not be dealt in the light of Quran and sunnah of prophet.<<

Following Muhammad brings peace had me laughing. He conducted nearly eighty wars and raids during his lifetime. Many of them were surprise attacks on unsuspecting caravans and tribes. He even had the entire Jewish tribe of Banu Mustaliq exiled after robbing them of their property. He married young women who were beautiful from the tribes he conquered. Since he did it so many times it must be considered sunnah to force yourself on women of conquered people.

Thrashing your wife if you suspect she will be disobedient is not guaranteed to bring happiness in the life of an individual. Nor does shutting away a woman until she dies for lewdness. Both are recommended by the Koran.

>> I have my beloved soul mate who brought me back to the true belief from atheism. My wife grand father did not have any kid and his first wife died after 19 years of his marriage. He spent twenty years lonely as widower and never looked other lady as he was very simple and loved his first wife. He was very handsome………. His second wife died six years ago and they both lead life happily. He is still so active and looks like in sixties. Thanks God he married and his offspring were born so I got my beloved soul mate too.

Personal anecdotes should be recounted at the dining table. This forum can do without it. You have still not told us your age at the time you married your beloved soul mate who was not yet eighteen at the time.

You certainly become a pedophile if you have sex with a girl below the legal age of marriage and you are older than her.

>>Sir, you are probably talking about those laws which can not explain that how a boy who has been making sex with girl ( two year younger to him) for many years, as he turns 18 becomes pedophile endangering a kid.<<

An eighteen year old boy having sex with a sixteen year old is very different from your prophet at fiftythree getting into bed with a nine year old girl. If the prophet or anybody else at eighteen had sex with a girl of nine it would certainly be pedophilia. Is this so difficult to understand, Masood??

>>Please, do not mix Laws. You live in India and I have had experience of two cultures and observed personal problems of these people more closely.<<

If what you are suggesting is the culture you are living in has to indulge in pedophilia to overcome their personal problems, then you certainly have a strange religion.

>>A girl who has sex when she is 6 or 7 should have her parents sent to jail.

These two kids must live on an isolated island to continue to have sex for 10 years without anyone noticing and taking appropriate action. No court in a civilized society will jail the boy if he has just attained majority.

But I never heard that parents of eight year mom were arrested. I think that they must be congratulated for bringing their daughter name in Book of Records. And many such examples prevailing in this culture.<<

Sending the parents of children as young as six and seven to jail was my suggestion. No such law exists apparently. Yes they should be congratulated for adding to the statistics of young age sexuality. In Islamic countries this is considered normal because your Prophet married a six-year-old girl and the Khalifas too married girls of very tender age. That is why there are no statistics of such immoral sexual activities of Muslim men. They are not reported or recorded because islamically speaking they are halal.

>>Yes, instead watching my kid to face aftermath ( making- breaking relationships due to extra girls have brought havoc in this culture and people have started realizing that they need to fix life cycle of human beings along with of any species we cry for ) of such relation without wedlock I would like to engage my kids as they reach puberty and start getting attraction to opposite sex.<<

I wonder what you are getting at? You want to get your children married when they reach puberty. That would be about 13 for girls and 15 for boys. I sincerely feel sorry for your kids. And I feel sorrier for you, especially since your intentions seem to be good.

Regards

Plato

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