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Mansoor: Khula is freedom to divorce for women? LOL. Read your link again

Reader comment on item: Counting Islamists
in response to reader comment: One sided view!!!

Submitted by Plato (India), Nov 23, 2008 at 01:40

Mansoor, you wrote:

>>How many times husband and wife fight with each other. Sometimes it happens regularly due to mental distance between the life partners. If on one fight, one misunderstanding, one painful event, people decide to separate then there will be no stopping of divorce or khulas.<<

Here are some cute hadiths to keep you informed about your prophet's and his immediate successors' ideas about fights between husband and wife (Also study the other hadith given in the next answer):

Bukhari Book 008, Number 3467: Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported: Woman has been created from a rib and will in no way be straightened for you; so if you wish to benefit by her, benefit by her while crookedness remains in her. And if you attempt to straighten her, you will break her, and breaking her is divorcing her.

Muwatta 30.2:13: Yahya related to etc…...A man came to Umar ibn al-Khatab and said, ‘I have a slave-girl and I used to have intercourse with her. My wife went to her and suckled her. When I went to the girl, my wife told me to watch out because she had suckled her!' Umar told him to beat his wife and to go to his slave-girl because kinship by suckling was only by the suckling of the young.'

>>My beloved Prophet's every action is gem. I love his decisions, his supreme intellects and ability to handle things with broader vision.<<

Here is a gem from the actions of your prophet:

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 48, Number 806: Narrated Abdullah bin Umar: Allah's Apostle and Ubai bin Kab Al-Ansari went to the garden where Ibn Saiyad used to live. When Allah's Apostle entered (the garden), he (i.e. Allah's Apostle ) started hiding himself behind the datepalms as he wanted to hear secretly the talk of Ibn Saiyad before the latter saw him. Ibn Saiyad wrapped with a soft decorated sheet was lying on his bed murmuring. Ibn Saiyad's mother saw the Prophet hiding behind the stems of the date-palms. She addressed Ibn Saiyad saying, "O Saf, this is Muhammad." Hearing that Ibn Saiyad stopped murmuring (or got cautious), the Prophet said, "If she had left him undisturbed, he would have revealed his reality."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

>> The bitterness you find in the matter you quoted is again missing one thing. Why the husband and wife fought, what was the reason, who was responsible for the fight to reach the extent where the husband was flared up to beat his wife..Was the wife, purposely igniting her husband to act miserably and use that to initiate separation???? You are totally unaware of the background...Your approach is always negative.<<

Read these hadith and tell us who is being negative your prophet or me?

Abu dawud Book 11, Number 2142: "Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Your great prophet is telling you, you can beat up your wife for no reason whatsoever.

Abu Dawud Book 11, Number 2141: Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab: Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you.

If you read this along with the previous hadith you can guess that the prophet is not referring to men when he says ‘they'.

>> For me my Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is a respectable and honorable figure.<<

From the hadith I have quoted above if you still think your prophet is respectable and honourable you must have a very different dictionary to the ones I have.

>> My intellects, my thoughts, my capabilities are extremely limited. My Prophet was well instructed and helped by the Creator in taking decisions best fit for different situations arose during his period. The decisions are best for all future generations to come.<<

Don't belittle yourself. At least you are literate, unlike your prophet. The prophet was instructed by Allah Himself so it is no big deal if the prophet had ‘great knowledge and could take great decisions.'

>>To clear up more rust from your already rusted brain see the following for complete information!!!

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/khula.htm<<

The ‘complete information' about Khula I got from the link you have given also tells me this:

‘ Finally, it should also be remembered that a Khul' agreement can only be carried out with the consent of the husband. The wife does not have the jurisdiction to enforce Khul' without the consent of her husband. This is an agreed upon ruling in all of the four Sunni schools of Islamic law.'

This concept of women's ‘freedom' to divorce in Islam really had me rolling on the floor.

At the beginning of the fatwa this ‘learned' Islamic scholar says: ‘In the situation where a woman can no longer remain in the marriage of her husband and all attempts to save the marriage have failed, then the ideal solution would be for her to obtain a divorce from the husband. The husband, seeing that the marriage is futile and there is no hope of reconcilement, should also issue one divorce according to the prescribed method in Shariah.

However, in the case where the husband refuses to issue a divorce, the wife may persuade the husband to enter into an agreement of Khul' (a release for payment from the wife). The wife may also opt to forgive the husband from paying her dowry (mahr).'

Mansoor, you should read what the links you post are really saying. This fatwa is telling us in unequivocal terms that khula is totally dependent on the husband's will.

The fatwa also states: ‘The couple can normally agree upon any financial arrangement they desire. However, the Fuqaha state that, if the husband was at fault and it was his wrongdoings that resulted in the failure of their marriage, then it is impermissible for him to demand a financial payment in return for a divorce. He should divorce the wife without demanding anything in return.'

How many husbands do you know will admit to his fault with regard to his wife? This ruling is merely a license and an invitation to Muslim men to thrash their wives black and blue and demand payment for a divorce to get rid of him.

Mansoor, keep posting more such amusing links on fatwas from great scholars of Islam. Should I repeat for you the hilarious fatwa and hadith about mature women suckling mature men who are not their children or husbands?

>>Guidance or Hidayat which you usually make joke off is a treasure which is granted by Allah to those who are sincere in achieving the purity and are ready to repent.<<

Since you have great understanding of the Koran you could guide me to how to understand Allah's guidance in 6:125. Show me the treasure in it.

>>People like you have predetermined mindset, locked in a shell and always attempt to challenge Allah's decisions.<<

Have you ever wondered what kind of mindset you have? Has your madrassa education locked out all other ideas except those that a mulla who had no clue to what is reality taught you?

I am challenging Allah's (i.e Muhammad's) delusions about His being all-merciful all-benevolent and a source of guidance. What guidance is 6:125 offering, Mansoor?

>> With a limited vision (you yourself has adopted), you cannot go into the depth of the word "Guidance".<<

With your far-sighted vision can you guide us on the depth of the word "guidance"?

>>Sorry to say you are trying miserably to oppose whatever proved to you with concrete logic.<<

Your logic is limited to claims that Allah is merciful, benevolent and a great guide for life without proving how that is possible when you see miseries, injustice and cruelties all around. You claim that only Allah knows why. If you consider that good logic then you are truly a good, obedient Muslim.

I also showed you the kind of ‘concrete' logic a scholar of Islam demonstrated in his fatwa about khula. And Islamic logic is hard as CONCRETE. It is composed of the cement of the Koran mixed with the gravel of the sunnah, the water of the hadith and the sand of the fatwas.

>>May be your inner feeling stops you to accept the truth, that people around you would laugh that the person who attempted throughout his life to prove a true religion as wrong, so easily surrendered.<<

Truth will not wilt under the harsh heat of a blazing sun. Muslims are so scared that Islam will wilt under even starlight that they kill and threaten anyone who dares throw some light on what is the real Islam. Mansoor can you deny this TRUTH?

I do not blame Muslims for their violence but their Prophet. He taught them that murdering people who criticize him is sunnah. He murdered several people who criticized him including women and old men (you know the stories, or have your madrassa mullas neglected to tell them? Ask and I can give you the references from Muslims sources).

Muhammad also told you that unless you love him more than your parents and children, you are not a good Muslim. Will you also kill your parents and children if they question your Prophet, Mansoor? That is what these hadith tell you and he set the example of what should be done to people who criticize him:

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 13,14, 15:

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father and his children."

Narrated Anas: The Prophet said "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."

Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.

……

>>Plato, I am not stepping back an inch from my faith.<<

Please don't, you will fall into the inviting abyss of disbelief.

>> Thanks to Allah, my vision is broad and I have enlightened brain and heart to see the positive aspect of every verse of Quran, Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his Sunnah which is a guiding light for me and for every Muslim, who is standing firm on the faith which is endorsed by Allah...Islam is true...others are just juggling, puzzling and misdirected faiths.<<

Allah has endorsed only the Koran, the hadith and the Prophet. Can your brain and heart ever think of broadening your vision beyond them? You cannot do so even by an inch and remain a Muslim. I thank Allah that I am not a Muslim.

>>Better judge your approach Plato!!! <<

My approach goes beyond what is contained in the Koran and hadith.

Regards

Plato

Submitting....

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