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Mansoor: From mud we arose and to mud we shall return

Reader comment on item: Counting Islamists
in response to reader comment: Old curry with new color!!!

Submitted by Plato (India), Nov 19, 2008 at 19:07

>>Your wisdom is in the depth of the mud!!<<

Allah Himself tells us that He created us from clay, dust and water, all constituents of mud. The real wisdom is to realize that we arose from mud and to mud we shall return. End of story. Don't let the Koran muddy this bit of wisdom.

>>I really pity at your explaining (Tafseer-e-Plato) different verses of Quran the glorious. The most important thing needed to understand Quran is spiritual purity and thirst to achieve guidance.<<

A glorious book does not confuse its readers by saying it guides and also in the same breath it misguides. 6:125 does just that. It will tell you that there is no compulsion in religion, 2:256, 10:99 and later informs you that no religion except Islam is acceptable to Allah, 3:85, 9:33. Nor can a glorious book inform you that the people of the book can be trusted and later tell you to fight them until they submit humbly. Need I quote the verses, Mansoor?

>>Your repeated attempts to make joke of the verses of Quran is extremely bad and unacceptable.<<

If a book you claim is glorious but makes the silly errors I have pointed out above why would I not be justified in being jocular about its verses. It may be unacceptable to you but tell me what is bad about what I have said?

>>You try to become advocate of Women's rights but you have very weak knowledge of Islam and Sharia. In these circumstances your objections are not at all valid. For example you mentioned that if a woman's husband is unable to satisfy her due to his inability..then for your kind information, that woman is entitled to obtain "Khula" or Divorce...Hope you are aware of it...but unfortunately you love to hide the pearls of Islam.<<

This are some of the pearls of Islam I found about Khula in Abu Dawud. The pearls of Islam are for the man, the woman gets not even the mother of pearl.

"Book 12, Number 2218: Narrated Thawban:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If any woman asks her husband for divorce without some strong reason, the odour of Paradise will be forbidden to her."

Is not being happy with a husband in bed a strong enough reason?

Book 12, Number 2220

Book 12, Number 2220:

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

Habibah daughter of Sahl was the wife of Thabit ibn Qays Shimmas He beat her and broke some of her part. So she came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) after morning, and complained to him against her husband. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) called on Thabit ibn Qays and said (to him): Take a part of her property and separate yourself from her. He asked: Is that right, Apostle of Allah? He said: Yes. He said: I have given her two gardens of mine as a dower, and they are already in her possession. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Take them and separate yourself from her.

Mansoor, as you can see from Abu Dawud, if a woman is beaten black and blue resulting in ‘some part of her' being broken the Prophet considered it strong reason for the woman to divorce. The prophet does not even consider any compensation for the hurt caused but instead asks her to part with what had been given to her (In fact the prophet wanted the aggrieved wife to part with her property to compensate the husband for the divorce!). This is one of the hadith on which the Khul divorce is based.

And Ibn Anas's Muwatta makes clear that this is a kind of ransom that the husband gets for granting divorce: 29:12:33 …..Malik said that a woman who ransomed herself could not return to her husband except by a new marriage…..

Khula then is a divorce which, if the husband wants to get his wife's wealth, can easily achieve by thrashing her to an inch of her of life.

>>for details see


I gave you details of what Khula is from very original sources as against this modern sheikh on the site you have linked. If this sheikh has amended what the prophet ordered, good for him and more power to people like him. But there is something missing in his ruling. The ransom that the prophet ordered Habibah to pay her tormentor to get a divorce is missing in this ruling. Has he dispensed with this ruling of the Prophet too?

>>You quoted this verse of Quran...thanks for your effort.

YUSUFALI: Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

The verse is gem, a sincere warning and alarming humans to behave and act according to the will of Allah. Our Lord seals the hearts and brains of the people like you, all because you reject the truth, even if you are convinced 1000 times with concrete logics.<<

Mansoor, this is a very flawed gem of a verse. Why can't you understand that it is telling you that Allah wills some to be misguided and ensures they stay that way by closing their breasts? This no warning. It is a flat out statement that Allah misguides some people and leaves them in that state. Mansoor, show me with even "one time" logic that my reasoning is flawed.

>>Did you ever tried to fill a Visa application for any country????

Hopefully you have seen many check boxes and fields that have to be filled. Some fields are compulsory and if you don't fill or stand unfit in the requirement, your visa application is rejected....!<<

Exactly, Mansoor, Allah rejects my application for paradise because He has made me unfit by not guiding me, by His will.

>>Samely the visa for paradise has the most compulsory requirment is Shahada.....better read about 5 pillars of Islam...to wash up your brain dust.<<

Let us examine the five pillars that you suggest will clear the dust from my brain: 1) Salat (ritual prayer). You symbolically wash a few exposed areas of your body while repeating some Koranic mantra and then repeat verses from the Koran without rhyme or reason. I understand you can use any verse of the koran during prayer (al Fatiha is cumpulsory). This means that you could recite the verse about allowing Mohammed to marry almost any woman he wishes or permission to marry his divored daughte-in-law and to lower your voice while speaking to him also can be recited. How ridiculous is that!

Zakat (charity): This is what well-off Muslims use to patronise their poorer brothers to stack up credits with Allah. Allah also tells you that you can use zakat to bribe people into accepting Islam: 009.060 YUSUFALI: Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to Truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

This is Islamic charity and it is supposed to clear mind of dust?

Siyam (Ramadan fasting): You go hungry during the day and indulge yourself during the night including having sex. Just turning the usual rhythm of life topsy turvy is supposed to clear one's mind?

Haj (pilgrimage): This is the time you tell Allah you have come to His abode and circumambulate the black stone just as during pre-Islamic period and just as the pagans do now. You also throw stones at the poor devil who has been appointed by Allah to fool people into disbelief. And worst of all you cut the throats of millions of animals to please this unseen god.

Instead of clearing the dust from one's brain these rituals are guaranteed to turn one's brain into slushy mud.


>>People like you are caught in a phobia to prove Islam as wrong which you cannot do and will not be able to do...all because you are following a concept which is based on only seeing is believing...rather than including feeling the truth whch is also part of believing..<<

Mansoor, we do not believe in seeing is believing. That is why we do not believe, unlike the Koran, that the earth revolves around the sun. We believe in proof, just seeing is not proof enough. Your hair stands on end when you approach a shmashan (burial ground) at night. Did you feel the truth about the ghosts your grandmother told you about and did you for that reason start believing in ghosts?

Think Plato where you are standing ???

I am standing right here on earth and I find on it are both heaven and hell. The hell is created primarily by the followers of god (and sometimes of gods and goddesses)




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