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sTs: A few answers to your daring question

Reader comment on item: A Democratic Islam?
in response to reader comment: Plato is afraid to answer - hiding

Submitted by Plato (India), May 19, 2008 at 22:35

sTs you wrote:

‘YOU dare not answer my question', regarding what I had written about your response to Larry.

You wrote to Larry:

>>But the Quran does not say Kill all the unbelievers and full stop, No it says kill the unbeliever until they stop killing you,<<

Read 9:111 once more with care.

>>if they returned to kill you, then return in killing them. in other places it says if they opted for peace then opt for peace.<<

Read the following verses for an answer:

009.001 -008
YUSUFALI: A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

>>It is always self defence.<<

Does reading 9:1-7 give you the impression that it is always self-defence?? Was the Nakhla incident self-defence. Was the abortive bid on Abu Sufyan's caravan defensive in nature?

>>However the bible says to Moses, Kill them all, you see your bible is not an angel<<

This is no surprise to us pagans, infidels, and kaffirs as the bible fathered Islam. They were all fathered by a hugely self-loving, dangerously power-hungry phantom being.

Islam admits that it carries similar genes as that of the Torah and the Bible. What you have quoted is just a part of them.

As an atheist your quotes from the Bible amuse me. They confirm that like their progeny, the other biblical religions are as violent as Islam.

But 9:111 is a degree above all the stuff you have quoted from the Bible. None of the quotes you have given makes any promise of paradise for the killings. 9:111 is a written contract signed by Allah promising the pleasures of heaven for killing or being killed.

009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Read the underlined portions which clearly tell you Allah has signed this contract in which you have got a real bargain. He reminds you that this contract is binding on Him and He has never reneged on his contracts. He even helpfully tells you that this is also as per his promise in the torah and the bible.

sTs, below I have pasted the tafsir on 9:111of Ibn Kathir, one of the most trusted Koran commentators among Muslims. Ibn Kathir has made clearer the already clear meaning of 9:111.

Allah has purchased the Souls and Wealth of the Mujahidin in Return for Paradise

Allah states that He has compensated His believing servants for their lives and wealth -- if they give them up in His cause -- with Paradise. This demonstrates Allah's favor, generosity and bounty, for He has accepted the good that He already owns and bestowed, as a price from His faithful servants. Al-Hasan Al-Basri and Qatadah commented, "By Allah! Allah has purchased them and raised their worth." Shimr bin `Atiyyah said, "There is not a Muslim but has on his neck a sale that he must conduct with Allah; he either fulfills its terms or dies without doing that." He then recited this Ayah. This is why those who fight in the cause of Allah are said to have conducted the sale with Allah, meaning, accepted and fulfilled his covenant. Allah's statement,

(They fight in Allah's cause, so they kill and are killed.) indicates that whether they were killed or they kill the enemy, or both, then Paradise will be theirs. The Two Sahihs recorded the Hadith,

(Allah has made a promise to the person who goes out (to fight) in His cause; `And nothing compels him to do so except Jihad = in My Cause and belief in My Messengers. ' He will either be admitted to Paradise if he dies, or compensated by Allah, either with a reward or booty if He returns him to the home which he departed from.) Allah's statement,

(It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Tawrah and the Injil and the Qur'an.) affirms this promise and informs us that Allah has decreed this for His Most Honorable Self, and revealed it to His Messengers in His Glorious Books, the Tawrah that He sent down to Musa, the Injil that He sent down to `Isa, and the Qur'an that was sent down to Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be on them all. Allah said next,

(And who is truer to his covenant than Allah) affirming that He never breaks a promise. Allah said in similar statements,

(And who is truer in statement than Allah)[4:87], and,

(And whose words can be truer than those of Allah)[4:122]. Allah said next,

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=22054

Regards

Plato

Submitting....

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