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Euphemisms from Estonia 1

Reader comment on item: Turkey: An Ally No More
in response to reader comment: continuing a sub-plot - peppered examples of excess from another non-religious kind totalitarian system.

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Nov 19, 2009 at 15:13

Hi, my friend from Kafiristan

> Ianus writes:
" "The tribes from this loose confederation were as much willing to fight against foreigners as they were ready to raid and loot each other and ally themselves with these foreigners. In such tribal societies the traditional centrifugal forces are usually as strong as the centripetal ones."

>Language is a very strong factor in cultural cohesion.<

Self-interest is a much stronger force. World history is full of elqouent examples of that. The American war of independence and the 1812 war was fought against the linguistically identical state. Nestor's Chronicle names many Finnish tribes that joined hands with the Swedish Varangians and later the Russians in the expeditions against other Finnish tribes.

The blindness of the Baltic language-obsessed nationalists to this fact shouldn't make us as blind and uncritical as themselves, I presume.

> and easily within living memory , non-Russians (i.e. Estonians) had been more than openly discriminated against by Russians in Estonia. <

"Your emphasis on 'Russian' is a bit disconcerting , I think. With c. 160 nationalities and ethnic groups on their territory the Russians didn't develop and spread the same sort of nationalistic mentality the Estonians with their "one-nation obsession - were imbued with."

OK, in order not to lay blame where blame is not due, let me say predominantly Russian then. <

As far as I understand it the Estonians don't seem to be very good at making subtler distinctions. Anything that comes from the East and speaks Russian is Russian for them. In this respect they strongly resemble the Westerners.

"Under the Soviets much was invested in Estonia and labour was needed which Estonians couldn't provide"

> Right , an example that immediately comes to mind is the former cemetery in Kopli, a tramride away from the Old Town. An easy way to rip away all traces of cultural history and connectedness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopli_cemetery<

The example that immediately comes to mind is not necessarily the best example. The cemetery was within the Soviet military zone. No military have been particularly mindful of cultural remains that hinder their military base.

If your point was to expose Russia's barbarity, then may I draw your attention to the fact that thanks to the Russian military bases on the beautiful Estonian islands and ban on construction and enclosures the unique wild life there was preserved intact which is now endangered by wild construction activities after dismantling the bases ?

Anyway,I'd ask your humanist-minded Estonian friends how they 'cared' for the monuments and graves of the German or Russian aristocrats they had betrayed and abused after concluding the infamous Treaty of Tartu with Lenin –Estonia's new friend and now so widely hated fiend? That might show many an example on par with the Kopli cemetery.

When I say 'investment' I mean e.g. all the energy sector, cotton factories, metal manufacturing, the new port in Tallin etc. etc. which were all Soviet investments which relied heavily on the huge Soviet market both of raw materials and consumers. Even now the Estonians with no memory holes may remember that the Russian fuel was much cheaper once upon a time.

>. Now do you think the Russians/Ukrainians, Belorus/Uzbeks or the rest should learn Estonian to pelase to the erstwhile lords of the land? "

Of course, with Russain being the language of international friendship and cooperation - the Russians would politely request that Estonians learn to speak Russian.<

I don't know what stories Estonians told you. But if you are inquisitive and curious enough you'll find out on your own that under the bad 'totalitarian' Soviets Estonia had two official languages – Estonian and Russian. Quite unthinkable now with the triumph of the good 'democratic' Estonians!

> By the way, the first thing Estonia did in 1991 was to cancel and repudiate all debt to the USSR. Was it also part of the justice you mention below ?

> The situation currently I guess it's a bit of social justice - long term payback. Understandable but unfortunate.

"I don't understand what social justice is restored by revitalizing injustice and discrimination whereas I remember that the whole Estonian Popular Front movement under Gorbachov was a huge big-mouthed promise to restore justice and respect the Russians whom the Estonians were trying to win on their side for propaganda reasons. But when independence came, Estonian "justice" showed its true ,

'Social justice' - a euphemism I'm using for payback. viz: '.....

It's no euphemism , it's a caricature. "Payback" ? It works here as long as you uphold Russian 'collective guilt" – a notion known from the early medieval and barbarian legal systems. You first construe a collective guilt – the Soviet occupation for which you insidiously blame all the Russians in Estonia for it and then not finding any longer Stalin, Berya etc. and other real culprits you punish the imaginary collective "culprits" , i.e. any Russian who happens to be living within your jurisdiction. You "pay back" the wrong people ! I'll spare you my euphemism for it.

> In August 1940, Estonia was formally annexed by the Soviet Union as the Estonian SSR. Those who had failed to do their "political duty" of voting Estonia into the USSR, specifically those who had failed to have their passports stamped for voting, were condemned to death by Soviet tribunals.[18] The repressions followed with the mass deportations carried out by the Soviets in Estonia on June 14, 1941. Many of the country's political and intellectual leaders were killed or deported to remote areas of the USSR by the Soviet authorities in 1940-1941. Repressive actions were ... taken against thousands of ordinary people.'

I do assure you I know this story. This was routinely done to many more groups and nationalities. The Estonians were not so special. The Russian civil war exterminated the Russian officers, the cosacks, the priests, the intelligentsia. The collectivization of agriculture annihilated the Russian peasants. The Great Stalinist Terror decimated the army, the administration, the science... This all happened before and afterwards in Stalin's paradise.

I repeat. The conclusion you draw following your Estonian friends' tale is however a non-sequitur. How can you punish Gorbachov and the Russians in 1991 for what their fathers did ( rather or didn't do) ? Was it correct to stygmatize as a non-citizen and "occupier" any Russian child or youngster because they happened not to belong to the happy Estonian race? The Estonians wanted to re-create their alleged pre-war paradise but the way they have chosen leads there through the swamps and quicksands of misfortune and discrimination of non-Estonians.

>yes - the joke is replacing one red passport for another. I agree with you on the EU - the ratification of the Lisbon treaty and talk of EU-wide taxation and more power to the president etc is a dangerous thing.<

'....Some call it more poignantly - the Western Soviet Union - the EUSSR.'

sadly, I think that may well be the case. A bunch of power hungry politicians catering to the lowest common denominator.

You can see quite often graffiti in our cities saying "Yesterday Moscow, today Brussels !".

> So , naturally because they share a border with Russia - Rusia appears to become encircled..... The point I was making was based on the geographic locations of the EU states. The EU via the Baltic states immediately adjoin Russia - so naturally you could say that the EU is 'encircling' Russia. Russia does not adjoin Texas or Alaska or New England.

'.....As a matter of fact Russia adjoins Alaska through the straits of Bering and the Baltic states are the former Russian territory just like Kosovo is a Serbian territitory despite a big US military base and a jihadist pseudo-state there.'

> Surely you don't think then that these cultures somehow 'belong' to Russia - and should not have been given the chance to carve out their own future?

Well, if Hussein Obama 'reverts' openly to Islam, Alaska may feel tempted to declare independence from Islamized America. Who knows how the grave-diggers of the USSR will end themselves ? They are so many willing to play the role of the gravediggers and ghouls of the West.

> Having lived there I can guarantee you it is not as bad as you're making out.

"....Sure, in Chechnia it was much worse. Yet after promising a national paradise to the Russians in the 80-ies this Estonian paradise seems to hardly resemble the old promised land of freedom and equality."

> A Russian living in Berlin would not have too different a life from a Russian living in Tallinn. It is nothing like Chechnya. In fact many Estonians regard Russian Estonians as 'our Russians'.

How do you mean : Russians are occupiers and "our Russians" must sound like 'our occupiers", needn't it ?

> The Russians I met there were very friendly people and got on well with native Estonians. Those who weren't drinking vodka in parks were working normal jobs.

...Will you say that all Russians who can't get a job in Estonia to live from are alcoholics?

I can't draw that conclusion. I can state I did observe many (more than 50) highly intoxicated Russian-speaking people who were drinking vodka in parks in the daytime. But I also saw and met many Russians who were not drinking and holding down regular jobs.

The crucial question is "Did you see any Russians who were not drinking and yet remained unemployed ? "

"What is remarkable is that roughly the same happened after WWI. The German aristocrats were won with generous promises for the Esonian side and later betrayed and gradually stripped of their possessions. Their lands were confiscated and the German minority was oppressed and discriminated."

Well at least you can say the Estonians were fairminded in their revenge.

"Fairminded" ? Another of your euphemisms, my friend? They first betrayed Yudenich and concluded a perfidious treaty with Lenin and now they sermon unctuously on the 'sanctity' of this treaty basing their claims on it! They abused the Germans, dispossessed them and persecuted them and now pretend to care so much for their Germans! They fawned the local Russians during the days of the Estonian Popular Front and betrayed them as well the very day they got what they had been hankering for! And you call it 'fair-minded'!

> I can understand it actually - if you visit some of the outstanding moise scattered around the countryside - you get an idea just how well the Baltic Germans lived.

It's the past the Estonians ,however, can't identify themselves with. They want a myth of at least a 1000 year-old Estonia and what they see around is German mansions and relics and sad proofs that all of that 'myth' is not even 100 years old, i.e. it is too young to dupe the skeptics and hypnotize the youth. All that 'independence' happened in 1917-1918 with the advance of the foreign (German) troops of occupation which were too few to occupy the land and yet numerous enough to produce through their grace or rather a nessity a new statelet - Estonia. But this statelet has been stained from the moment of its birth until now. Not to see that is a remarkable success of Estonian propaganda!

"I doubt if not being a genius I could ever hope to learn Estonian with its 14 noun cases in both singular and plural and exotic non-Indo-European vocabulary and different anomalies of its grammar. I read once a Finnish grammar and it was impossible for me to remember most intricacies and vowel-and consonant changes etc."

It's actually a very pleasant and melodic language to listen too - less harsh than Finnish.

I wonder what sort of beauty would you relish in if one day the Aborigines declared independence of the part of Australia you're living in, made you a non-citizen and forced you to learn one of their dialects prohibiting to use Enlish in courts, shops , hospitals and otehr public places ?

"Anyway, what a waste of time to memorize all of that if one could devote one's time instead to learning English or German!"

I don't agree. learning a language like that will serve you in good stead - purely because you really have to try hard to understand it. At this point I must sincerely compliment you on your own command of English - it is excellent. You're obviously an educated guy.<

Thanks for the compliment although I hardly deserve it.

I agree that exotic languages like Estonian are curious and even charming but forcing people to learn them, blackmail and raid foreign institutions with Estonian language inspectors to extort the proficiency performance from non-natives under pain of depriving them of their jobs and dubious citizenship is the surest way to make this exotic language a curse and a joke to the civilized world.

"But Russian schools are raided regularly by Estonian language inspectors who check if Russian teachers are fluent enough in Estonian to prolong their work permit as Russian teachers ! What a parody! Needless to say, some 98% do fail the exams!"

If I was going to move to Estonia - I would make sure I spent the time to learn the language. I would be subject to the same language requirements as an Russian, no more , no less. I understand that they have a unique culture - and culture is underpinned by language. They want to protect it - that's their business. It's their country.

All would sound nice were it not for a few details, my friend. a/ Estonian is not a language like any other- it's much too difficult to demand from non-natives (particularly the older ones) to achieve a level necessary for intelligent communication. b/ Given the fact that every third inhabitant of Estonia (technically a non-citizen) doesn't speak or understand this exotic language , an alternative language of communication should be found. Under the bad Soviets two languages were official in Estonia. Until 1885 it was only German. But I am not naive. I know how skilfully language is used not to integrate but to down and humiliate the Russian minority. The Estonians tell the fairy tale of "protecting" their culture by imposing oppressive linguistic rules but what sort of danger would their culture or country run by allowing people who speak another language in private to use it in public ? What sort of 'unique culture' is it that needs this ridiculous linguistic oppression, nay terror to survive and thrive ?

"How much did he offer?

From memory about $2k

What would you do if you were a Russian in Estonia and the sum were offered to you ?

> It's remarkable, that teh Estonian jingoists have taken up his idea - and propose " to support re-emigration one should create a special governmental agency and allocate money from the budget". The Russians have aptly baptised this proposal "The Ministry of Expulsion".

The Danes are now doing the same thing aren't they - not with Russians though.So it isn't a bad policy in all cases.

All depends on whom you are going to get rid of. The Estonians will regret one day what they have been doing now with the Russians when a few refugee camps for "poor Palestinians", "miserable Aghans", or other 'displaced Moslems' are established in Estonia in accordance with the 'wise' EU-wide policy on refugee quotas and when the Estonian Moslems at large start their usual business of establishing the Islamic Third World Order in the country. The Russians share the same fundamental values as Estonians and want no sharia in Estonia. Moslems will not have such scruples.

"I don't think my perspective has anything to do with my Slavic origin. I would hardly show any sympathy to Croatians and their fascist ideology. I find simply that what is being done in Estonia and Latvia is unjust, wrong and counterproductive."

> My perception of Russians' life in Estonia (2005) was that they weren't having such a bad time - many own companies and many have their own houses and lots of flash cars. The economy then was doing very well - of course there has been a downturn but the fact is Russians there would still rather live in Estonia than Russia.

And don't you know where all this wealth comes from? Smuggling goods from Russia has assumed exorbitant proportins –cigarettes, alcohol, copper, nickel, works of art, drugs, illegal immigrants ... A quote from an older analysis will hopefully illustrate what I mean : "In the first nine months of 1994, $45 million worth of nonferrous metals passed over the border from Russia to Estonia-- most of it illegally--and out to the West. Tiny Estonia is now one of the world's largest exporters of nonferrous metals, even though it produces none."


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Title Commenter Date Thread
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Welcome to Turkey Erdogan Style [826 words]Solomon TaraganoDec 8, 2009 20:11165020
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1Misunderstood [8990 words]Solomon TaragnoDec 11, 2009 09:51165020
Misunderstood [26 words]Solomon TaraganoDec 11, 2009 10:02165020
1Excellent comment [55 words]IanusDec 19, 2009 17:36165020
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Solomon Taragano [20 words]Evren, UKMar 10, 2010 17:35165020
Good comments [121 words]stranchanNov 14, 2012 22:49165020
Criminals who kill in the name of Allah? [127 words]StasFeb 28, 2013 06:17165020
It seems that Erdogan has gone far too far in his ambitions in becoming the l.eader of the Muslim world! [249 words]Isaac HaskiyaNov 22, 2009 13:20164893
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Your governments' role. [37 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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cevap [450 words]General Mirza Iskandar KhanNov 18, 2009 22:28164543
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yet another case of Western trained Muslim professionals 'reverting' [55 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 7, 2009 02:52164137
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Turkey,Frankly Unexpected [159 words]Jay1Nov 3, 2009 00:42163984
islamic turkey [258 words]havasNov 3, 2009 11:53163984
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nato, israel, [247 words]havasNov 7, 2009 03:39163984
1Sharia and child abuse in Turkey [743 words]IanusNov 8, 2009 14:00163984
contradictions [351 words]havasNov 9, 2009 07:54163984
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dogs and plants are not less valuable than armenians and turks. [458 words]havasNov 15, 2009 14:10163984
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ı hope god forgives you [186 words]havasNov 19, 2009 14:39163984
Allah explains: "It is only by sword and fire that the world is progressing ". [1053 words]IanusNov 24, 2009 09:34163984
shame on you [114 words]havasNov 26, 2009 14:56163984
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nonsense [50 words]havasDec 1, 2009 02:09163984
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tell cia to change the information [38 words]havasDec 3, 2009 13:30163984
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armenian president sosikian, [83 words]havasDec 8, 2009 12:20163984
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2Barbarity and civilization and the past [580 words]IanusJan 28, 2010 15:08163984
Our dear Turk and Turkish delusions [623 words]dhimmi no moreJan 30, 2010 18:47163984
Hi Ianus [27 words]dhimmi no moreJan 30, 2010 18:52163984
Thanks [51 words]IanusJan 31, 2010 10:42163984
Hypocrisy and Watchdogs of Broken doors – IV – Repent And Repat , a.k.a. 'The Motto' [2433 words]TurkJan 31, 2010 14:14163984
A few words on ignorance [420 words]TurkJan 31, 2010 15:17163984
Last phase of 'Enlightenment' - The story of a Pregnant woman ,'civilized' 17 times during 8 minutes in a Court Room [1007 words]TurkJan 31, 2010 17:00163984
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Our dear Turk and speaking of ignorance and self hate [735 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 1, 2010 18:26163984
Cherry picking time and Turkish delusions and the carpenter and the Arabian warlord and caravan raider [339 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 2, 2010 08:33163984
Our dear Turk and more cherry or is it dates picking time Reading books with pictures [180 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 3, 2010 13:28163984
More date picking time and justice Turkish style and for the readers read and enjoy [121 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 3, 2010 13:34163984
Our dear Turk and ignorance is really bliss and oh more cherry picking [468 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 4, 2010 19:19163984
More ignorance from our dear Turk and this time his ancestors the Syrians that were massacred by the Turks [436 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 6, 2010 08:34163984
More ignorance from our dear Turk and this time the language of his ancestors the Syrians in the Qur'an [175 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 7, 2010 07:35163984
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Friend no more [103 words]Rebecca MouldsNov 2, 2009 08:40163962
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Pakistani Threat to US, India and Israel [46 words]JohnyNov 1, 2009 15:01163933
Turkey an ally no more [240 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyNov 6, 2009 23:09163933
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Turkey an Ally no more. [50 words]fazal habib CurmallyNov 9, 2009 22:45163933
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Turkey is not against West or Israel, it is just not its puppet anymore [550 words]Ahmet SekerNov 1, 2009 13:25163927
salaam my brother [246 words]DawudNov 4, 2009 09:45163927
Your words say it all [16 words]GaryNov 4, 2009 13:25163927
Dawud you're in the wrong place! [203 words]BANov 4, 2009 19:39163927
why bother? [64 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 4, 2009 20:21163927
Returning to Islam instead of "converting" ! And Arabic words, please, David, translate these Arabic words ! [282 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreNov 7, 2009 05:04163927
response to your responses [468 words]DawudNov 7, 2009 09:32163927
Muslims are Buddhists? [251 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 7, 2009 20:03163927
your grandfather is rolling in his grave [765 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 7, 2009 21:45163927
Hypocrisy Muslim-style [49 words]lisaNov 10, 2009 18:29163927
medieval religion in modern world [68 words]muslimk***Nov 12, 2009 14:10163927
Follower of Peaceful Relgion going to spread PEACE through destruction! [70 words]Eastern_WindNov 13, 2009 13:51163927
our dear Dawud [492 words]dhimmi no moreNov 19, 2009 08:18163927
a kafir trying to correct my arabic lol!!! [387 words]DawudNov 20, 2009 09:25163927
silence is golden [69 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 21, 2009 05:17163927
oops! [45 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 21, 2009 23:36163927
Our dear Dawud is no more than a victim of Arabian imperialism [800 words]dhimmi no moreNov 22, 2009 09:03163927
Kafir [375 words]dawudNov 23, 2009 08:55163927
be a good little dhimmi [13 words]DawudNov 23, 2009 09:19163927
Cherry picking time and our dear Dawud Tabi3 deen al-irab [278 words]dhimmi no moreNov 23, 2009 19:18163927
questions, questions [1520 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 24, 2009 01:52163927
Dhimmi [181 words]DawudNov 25, 2009 09:21163927
Shariah [40 words]DawudNov 25, 2009 09:34163927
I must be in good company and mistakes in the Qur'an is spelling and in grammar! What a scandal [411 words]dhimmi no moreNov 26, 2009 08:46163927
Cherry picking time and our dear Dawud [570 words]dhimmi no moreNov 26, 2009 13:12163927
Homes made of glass and dawud [122 words]dhimmi no moreNov 26, 2009 16:01163927
Turkey: An ally no more [48 words]REXNov 1, 2009 13:23163926
I'm not the least surprised : more and more people agree with Daniel Pipes [154 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreOct 31, 2009 05:38163862
turkey [181 words]havasNov 1, 2009 16:26163862
You can understand Daniel Pipes : Turkey finds itself facing a novel problem - that of radical Islam ! [168 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreNov 2, 2009 02:09163862
scholar? [99 words]DawudNov 4, 2009 10:07163862
language [319 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 4, 2009 20:36163862
How can a kafir (non-Muslim) be an "islamic law scholar " ! [203 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreNov 5, 2009 06:00163862
Kafir Scholar [586 words]DawudNov 11, 2009 12:30163862
Women Scholars [226 words]DawudNov 11, 2009 12:42163862
in your imaginings [175 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 11, 2009 20:56163862
The Grand Infidel of kafiristan is brilliant with Dawud (David) ! [88 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreNov 12, 2009 03:40163862
2To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Sûrah 109-Al-kâfirûn) (the Infidels) [186 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreNov 12, 2009 08:32163862
best term so far [117 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 13, 2009 23:19163862
Isn't the term "Islam" good enough ? [143 words]IanusNov 15, 2009 15:14163862
what's our problem? [189 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 15, 2009 23:01163862
'Kafir' Scholarship Not Necessary if One Holds to the Truth in the Hebrew Holy Bible [611 words]M. ToveyNov 18, 2009 17:47163862
hiw [204 words]dawudNov 20, 2009 09:33163862
Islamic self hate [641 words]dhimmi no moreNov 21, 2009 08:27163862
More delusions from our dear Dawud [1047 words]dhimmi no moreNov 22, 2009 15:02163862
may allah guide you [158 words]DawudNov 23, 2009 09:44163862
Turkey as a Piece of the Prophetic Enigma [562 words]M. ToveyNov 23, 2009 12:36163862
Our dear Dawud and islamic self hate [555 words]dhimmi no moreNov 23, 2009 18:47163862
spare us [518 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 23, 2009 21:33163862
Look at this [232 words]DawudNov 25, 2009 09:28163862
No clue [89 words]DawudNov 25, 2009 09:48163862
Hi there [351 words]DawudNov 25, 2009 10:01163862
overseas trip? [291 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 26, 2009 03:39163862
timetable? [836 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 26, 2009 04:29163862
The brotherhood of Islam what a sham [250 words]dhimmi no moreNov 26, 2009 09:00163862
look at what? Ignorance? [874 words]dhimmi no moreNov 26, 2009 15:42163862
There is No Unity if There is No True Belief in Jesus Christ [272 words]M. ToveyDec 2, 2009 12:54163862
My Comment on Out of Context use of لكم دينكم ولي دين to justify even Kufr/ infidelity of Homosexuality [322 words]Bashir KashmiriJun 4, 2011 04:20163862
Why Turkey is turning away from the West [168 words]sol ganorOct 30, 2009 14:05163831
Tragi-comic outcomes [126 words]IanusOct 30, 2009 18:14163831
Ezekiel 38 [24 words]UgriOct 31, 2009 14:25163831
Goodbye turkey, goodbye! [67 words]Doug CorriganOct 30, 2009 09:18163820
Take not the Jews and Christians for allies ! (The Koran) [107 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreOct 29, 2009 21:44163791
Holy Koran (5:51) : very bad translation for arabic word "Awliya" ! [94 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreOct 31, 2009 05:10163791
Turkey- An ally no More- Take not the Jews and Christians for friends-response to Anne Marie Delcambre [106 words]Anne- USAOct 31, 2009 08:03163791
wrong interpretation [124 words]havasNov 1, 2009 16:37163791
Ne Mutlu Türkum Diyene ! (Mustafa Kemal) [242 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreNov 2, 2009 03:35163791
Havas: Jesus is also muslims prophet [98 words]klewNov 2, 2009 18:50163791
No such thing as Jesus was a Muslim prophet!!! [152 words]JaladhiNov 3, 2009 16:55163791
Proper Revelation - Not Interpretation - Necessary to Recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of the Eternal - The Holy One of Israel [344 words]M. ToveyNov 4, 2009 16:09163791
The accusation that Jesus was a Muslim prophet [28 words]Ha! you Muslims are FUNNY!Nov 5, 2009 07:49163791
"Jews and Christians as allies" [218 words]AwliyaNov 13, 2009 05:27163791
magnanimity of expedience [444 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 14, 2009 07:25163791
The problem with Awliya's stance [129 words]klewNov 15, 2009 03:15163791
Grand Infidel [275 words]AwliyaNov 16, 2009 08:28163791
The problem with klew's answer [186 words]AwliyaNov 16, 2009 08:59163791
still no answers from arliya [1305 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 17, 2009 06:07163791
Another victim of Arabian imperialism [1161 words]dhimmi no moreNov 17, 2009 10:38163791
1The Qur'an and variant tradtions [650 words]dhimmi no moreNov 17, 2009 14:06163791
Our dear Awliya and the word for today: clueless [516 words]dhimmi no moreNov 17, 2009 21:10163791
The problem with my answer, awliya?? When did I give an answer? [382 words]klewNov 18, 2009 03:30163791
Actually, no [74 words]klewNov 18, 2009 03:42163791
Our dear Awliya and al-nasikh wa al-mansukh and how come you did not know that?part trois [554 words]dhimmi no moreNov 18, 2009 08:13163791
Why say it then? [15 words]AZNov 29, 2009 08:57163791
Christians and Jews allies (if not they will be) [430 words]W. JuneDec 8, 2009 21:55163791
Turkey Came from the East and is Returning to the East [274 words]Salah AliOct 29, 2009 13:03163763
Ah...those wonderful idealists [141 words]pdmOct 29, 2009 12:33163757
Frienemies [173 words]LynnOct 29, 2009 11:08163750
Time to "Remember the Armenians," Turkey's history of Genocide can now finally be revealed [234 words]HistorianOct 29, 2009 01:24163730
Let historians decide [93 words]AybikeNov 1, 2009 11:43163730
1Turkish victimization comedy [1301 words]IanusNov 2, 2009 14:23163730
The Armenian Genocide and those that deny it [409 words]dhimmi no moreNov 15, 2009 17:16163730
Muslim Brotherhood completes its takeover of Turkey [86 words]Secular TurkOct 29, 2009 00:00163729
1Le sultan est mort! Vive le sultan ! [611 words]IanusOct 31, 2009 17:00163729
too bad [20 words]DralliusOct 28, 2009 22:07163722
thrown to the dogs [23 words]Peter, ScotlandOct 28, 2009 18:06163708
Turkey ought to make up its mind! Are they with the Free Western world or Islam! [94 words]Ben ZalmanOct 29, 2009 13:05163708
Was Turkey Ever Really an Actual Ally? [466 words]M. ToveyOct 28, 2009 17:23163706
Turkey: An Ally No More [16 words]NirnieOct 28, 2009 16:57163704
Turkey's bid for EU membership? Dead [38 words]Cheryl MOct 28, 2009 16:23163700
myopic? [21 words]betsyOct 29, 2009 13:08163700
1Turan , not the EU [307 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 16:18163700
The true Turkish color has been revealed [50 words]RobertOct 28, 2009 15:28163690
what has rabid anti-russian and anti-communist politics led to? [134 words]G.VishvasOct 29, 2009 05:47163690
1Opening blind eyes [136 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 16:40163690
You must listen the other side also, [290 words]HavasOct 31, 2009 05:34163690
The new old world or Jews discussing "the so called holocaust" with Nazi historians [1599 words]IanusNov 1, 2009 13:35163690
too long to answer [259 words]havasNov 2, 2009 05:14163690
To Havas [101 words]AnneNov 2, 2009 05:57163690
1"Europeans believe that Moslems have come to Europe just to earn money. But Allah has a different plan." [953 words]IanusNov 3, 2009 15:40163690
there is no true friendship between countries,they are not humans. [204 words]havasNov 4, 2009 01:34163690
islam is beautiful [280 words]havasNov 6, 2009 14:05163690
Islam is what it is [181 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 7, 2009 02:04163690
1islam -"this decaying corpse of an immoral Arab Beduin"- is beautiful [1400 words]IanusNov 7, 2009 14:29163690
Does the Israeli government agree with you? [100 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
There is NO Santa ClausOct 28, 2009 14:19163688
Closed eyes [30 words]outspoken2Oct 28, 2009 12:18163684
Turkey and NATO [33 words]Al PilverOct 28, 2009 11:49163683
Turkish education [94 words]G.VishvasOct 28, 2009 10:55163682
Turkey sits between Islam and the west - The west can love it or lump it [70 words]Erol New ZealandOct 29, 2009 01:39163682
Turkey, ex-ally. [5 words]steven LOct 29, 2009 12:00163682
No justification for turkish ethno-fascism [250 words]G.VishvasOct 29, 2009 18:31163682
Turkish education [175 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 18:55163682
What do Turkish women think? [43 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 19:17163682
2Turkey - two madnesses instead of one [208 words]IanusOct 31, 2009 15:29163682
time has changed [62 words]JohnNov 26, 2009 12:30163682
Times change but I wouldn't be so sure the Turks do. [159 words]IanusNov 26, 2009 18:11163682
Turkey's true colors revealed!! [127 words]JaladhiOct 28, 2009 09:58163676
Jaladhi-you are so right! [149 words]portuguesOct 29, 2009 13:25163676
ı support Erdogan [84 words]havasOct 28, 2009 09:18163674
Turkey no more an ally. [11 words]Steven LOct 29, 2009 11:55163674
Turkey's new ideal is JIHAD NOT DEMOCRACY! Hear it from a Turk! [275 words]OsiaOct 29, 2009 16:37163674
open questions all around [173 words]mythOct 28, 2009 08:48163673
1The more important construct [371 words]IanusOct 31, 2009 15:14163673
answering questions from Ianus and turkish population in german society [307 words]mythNov 1, 2009 08:12163673
1"I understand that you are sensitive about the issue of assimilation. No one can demand that from you... Assimilation is a crime against humanity." Imam Erdogan speaking to Turks in Cologne [1178 words]IanusNov 3, 2009 10:24163673
40kms? [76 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 4, 2009 20:55163673
to Ianus: some clarification on my position [127 words]mythNov 5, 2009 08:03163673
1Distances shrinking from 1500 km to 40 km or even less in twenty years' time [846 words]IanusNov 7, 2009 12:49163673
1Clarifications [519 words]IanusNov 7, 2009 15:27163673
soviet etc [732 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 7, 2009 22:42163673
Under the spreading chestnut tree I sold you and you sold me [2678 words]IanusNov 10, 2009 18:52163673
russia etc [1614 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 10, 2009 21:31163673
The Gorbachovian, not Stalinist USRR !!! [2903 words]IanusNov 14, 2009 17:55163673
continuing a sub-plot - peppered examples of excess from another non-religious kind totalitarian system. [2761 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 14, 2009 22:02163673
Euphemisms from Estonia 1 [2809 words]IanusNov 19, 2009 15:13163673
one extreme to the other [3218 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 20, 2009 02:52163673
Euphemisms from Estonia 2 [2960 words]IanusNov 20, 2009 16:11163673
our pet side-topic [1991 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 21, 2009 05:05163673
5The forgotten referendum 17.03.1991 [522 words]IanusNov 21, 2009 18:26163673
they choose not to be aligned with Russia. [224 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 21, 2009 23:03163673
Who needs the turks? [183 words]James BurkeOct 28, 2009 08:17163671
No surprise [137 words]Joe Six-PackOct 28, 2009 08:00163670
Turkey drifts South and East [177 words]JonOct 28, 2009 07:53163667
Islamic dollars for Turkey's Islamic hearts and minds [866 words]IanusOct 30, 2009 17:33163667
Losing an Ally & Losing a Country. [203 words]TulayOct 28, 2009 07:12163661
1The fourth coup d'état [643 words]IanusOct 31, 2009 16:23163661
Secular Turkey [19 words]David GuyOct 28, 2009 04:33163652
1Turkey's secular hijab or "Kemalism is transient, Islam is permant". [523 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 07:01163652
Secular Turkey - only a myth!!! [38 words]JaladhiOct 29, 2009 09:11163652
atheism [29 words]Safa BalOct 16, 2011 06:05163652
omission [165 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDOct 28, 2009 03:28163645
1One difference [165 words]IanusOct 31, 2009 17:20163645
Tantamount [269 words]yuval Brandstetter MDNov 1, 2009 07:46163645
How to become an ally [198 words]Onur YAZANOct 28, 2009 02:59163642
comment on Onur YAZAN's comment - turkish attitude and frustration [287 words]mythOct 29, 2009 09:10163642
An ally in need is not necessarily an ally indeed. [1528 words]IanusOct 31, 2009 14:27163642
turkey [95 words]sse huOct 28, 2009 02:37163640
Turkey and EU [21 words]T.MOct 28, 2009 02:26163639
Your last sentence is intritguing [9 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Abu NudnikOct 28, 2009 01:24163637
Turkey: An Ally No More [22 words]Steven LOct 27, 2009 23:26163634
Next step [72 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 19:27163634
Turkey an ally noi more [151 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 27, 2009 23:16163632
this is just the beginning [22 words]ErdoganNov 5, 2009 23:09163632
Turkey an ally no more [56 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyNov 6, 2009 22:54163632
Interesting dissimulations, frauds and betrayals ahead [158 words]IanusNov 7, 2009 15:48163632
How does the West expect Turkey to be the bridge between the east and west if they don't have ties with both sides ? [165 words]Sydney AustraliaOct 27, 2009 22:34163630
Europes rejection [157 words]paul GertzOct 27, 2009 22:29163629
Strange Bedfellows [51 words]Gerald LafonOct 27, 2009 20:59163627
"Our relations with Turkey are strong and good. We have been working hard to improve the already excellent relations." [318 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 18:27163627
The Turks are the most confused people on earth [309 words]dhimmi no moreOct 27, 2009 20:54163626
dhimmi= you are right. we say the same thing to turks: You are confused because.... [74 words]adnan khanNov 1, 2009 02:35163626
1"Ayrılık" -"Separation" - Turkey's new anti-Semitic "masterpiece" [320 words]IanusNov 1, 2009 14:50163626
such great success [85 words]the Grand Infidel of KafiristanNov 2, 2009 15:45163626
Come back to real Islam and you will become a failure! [232 words]IanusNov 2, 2009 18:15163626
The Turkish soaps [74 words]dhimmi no moreNov 10, 2009 11:05163626
Our dear Adanan and Pakistan [38 words]dhimmi no moreNov 10, 2009 13:35163626
Ayrilik [115 words]dhimmi no moreNov 10, 2009 13:53163626
We Turkish anti-Semites love the Jewish people so much. [1017 words]IanusNov 11, 2009 08:35163626
??? [151 words]MirzaNov 18, 2009 22:54163626
Our dear Mizra and Turkish self hate [385 words]dhimmi no moreNov 19, 2009 20:23163626
definitely a confused dhimmi [121 words]Mirza Iskandar KhanNov 23, 2009 18:07163626
Our dear Mizra of Arabian imnperialism and self hate [276 words]dhimmi no moreNov 24, 2009 18:20163626
Cherry picking time and our dear el-jeneral aka our dear Mizra and the greatest empire [200 words]dhimmi no moreNov 25, 2009 17:56163626
Brainless Dhimmi = FAIL [436 words]General Mirza Iskandar KhanNov 25, 2009 20:43163626
abandon hope all ye who ..... [21 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 26, 2009 04:55163626
Cherry picking time and al-baleed wa al-baghl [962 words]dhimmi no moreDec 2, 2009 21:04163626
Dates picking time and how many Muslims in the US! [205 words]dhimmi no moreDec 3, 2009 07:41163626
Our dear Mizra is saying that Armenian infants and children that were killed in the Armenian Genocide were killed because they were TRAITORS [114 words]dhimmi no moreDec 3, 2009 08:00163626
ıf were you , [98 words]Alper Can GündoğduMar 24, 2010 23:53163626
Untrue [113 words]anonApr 2, 2010 16:52163626
The Turkish machine at work [400 words]IanusApr 4, 2010 05:25163626
What is plan B? [203 words]Art K.Oct 27, 2009 20:51163625
European Union [41 words]Alan FoxOct 27, 2009 19:44163622
Nice Work, Obama [10 words]democratsarefascistsOct 27, 2009 19:23163621
Christmas [33 words]Doug CorriganOct 30, 2009 11:40163621
Dustbins of Turkish history [304 words]IanusOct 27, 2009 19:01163620
Poland 99.8% Catholic Monolculture ? God No ! [47 words]Sydney, AustraliaOct 29, 2009 01:28163620
Poland 99.8% ...Literacy Monolculture [418 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 17:28163620
Ianus [44 words]Evren, UKMar 10, 2010 17:41163620
Thanks Allah, I am no Turk! [270 words]IanusMar 12, 2010 15:37163620
Civilized divorce is probably the best option [190 words]BAOct 27, 2009 18:57163619
Keep blaming everyone but Israel... [26 words]AnthonyOct 27, 2009 17:43163614
Protect your citizens even if that causes a loss of "Friends" [81 words]BAOct 29, 2009 01:58163614
1Self-defence "a strategic mistake"? [409 words]IanusOct 29, 2009 06:33163614
Beg to differ Anthony [152 words]CanadianOct 29, 2009 23:40163614
With friends like these.............................. [68 words]FroikeOct 30, 2009 09:12163614

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