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The Qur'an and variant tradtions

Reader comment on item: Turkey: An Ally No More
in response to reader comment: "Jews and Christians as allies"

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Nov 17, 2009 at 14:06

I find it just amzaing that our dear awliya is debating in issue in a book the Qur'an that is when he does not speak write or read Arabic

And in part one I establshed the fact that the Ulama early on had no clue what this opaque revelation is really saying and why would Allah say no compulsion in religion then he says kill the idolaters and they had to come up with explanations including:

1. Asbab al-nuzul

2. al-nasikh wa al-mansukh

3. al-tafseer lel sahaba wa al-ta'weel lel ulama

But the turth is no one had a clue what this "text with no context" is really saying

So here is you lesson for today

Dear Anne-Marie,
Whether "allies" or "friends" the choice of words didn't matter too much here from this line, both pretty much having the same meaning and the part-verse commonly quoted by a great majority of people who wish to use it for various reasons..The most important thing here for all readers of the Quran would be to quote the following lines of this chapter..The description of the so called Jews and christians AND even amongst born muslims who reject faith . Examples:- 5:57"take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a MOCKERY OR SPORT,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith"

We discussed this part right?

Oh you also forgot Q5:51 where your Allah says

ya ayuha al-ladhina amanu la tatakhidhu al-yahuda wa al-nassara AWLIYA'

Which means O you believers do not take Jews and Christians as friends/protectors

5:66
"There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil."
which obviously means that there is no law forbidding the friendship from ALL JEWS OR CHRISTIANS.

well it says minhum ummatin or a nation from among them and it does not minhum hizban but as usual the Qur'an never defines which umma is that? and where are they? and as usual you can depend on the tafseer'ta'weel but you learned by now that al-tafseer wa al-ta'weel is all guessing

>5:69
Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. ..MEANING NOT ALL JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ARE SEEN AS ENEMIES..

Mr demagogue where does it say anything in this aya about al-awliya' thing? and at best this was nusikhat by ayat al-sayf and ayat al-jizya so your claim is bogus

>But as a good scholar I'm sure you knew all that ;))

Now here is your second lesson for today:

those that read the Qur'an for the first time find it puzzling that Allah is in the habit of repeating himself ad nauseum as in the Shu3ayb tradition and the two gardens tradition and in this case we have what can be called the awliya' tradition where for reasons unknown to the ulama Allah keeps repeating himself in what one can call :paralell passages. So why is that?

1. It could be that Allah or is it Muhammad had a limited stock of material and made "different use of it on different occasions" or what the ulama called asbab al-nuzul

2. Or and in the words of Cook '....the phenomenon of paralell traditions John Wansbrough who dubbed them 'variant traditions' suggested that we might have here the results of the development of 'independent possibly regional traditions incorporated more or less intact into the canonical compilation'

Do you know what this means? let me help you: asbab al-nuzul are all made up and there are multiple authors (gasp!) for the Qur'an

So much for the word of Allah

Peace to you.

There will be peace when islam is a relic of the past

Submitting....

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