2 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Ataturk's private problem

Reader comment on item: Turkey: An Ally No More
in response to reader comment: illogical

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Nov 13, 2009 at 17:02

Havas wrote :

>On the other hand child and woman abuse is very common everywhere as you say.ı cant deny this.<

Remarkable. You can't deny the obvious fact and yet if I hadn't stated this fact you would never mention it first. As I am never tired of repeating, unless one knows what's wrong with Turkey (and everything is wrong with her) one will hardly ever learn it from the Turks.

>but ı have strong suspect how islam can be related to this ugly tradition. ı read kuran and ı certainly dont get such a messege. but most of the people dont read Kuran anyways.<

They do but you are perhaps a lousy reader, aren't you ? Allah says:

4.34 "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. "

Interesting chain of ideas and chastisements by Allah, isn't it? And what does Allah suggest if the premise in the last ayat isn't fulfilled? "Then if those from whom you fear disobediencee persevere in disobedience ... " ?

What does your Allah mean to do then? Evidently, then your sense of Islamic duty is challenged and more radical action is required. Your Allah-obeying countrymen as you have seen from my previous post have understood quite well what sort of action is to be adopted.

Generally, I'd say that "honour" is a bit misleading term in the Islamic society where everything is regulated to the tiniest detail by Allah's words and his so called "prophet's " examples. As I see it, women are killed not because of what we in Europe understand as "honour" but because they have technically transgressed the Islamic law and by disobeying it have become apostates for which the death penalty is foreseen.

Every Moslem family is a miniature ummah and every member of the family is bound by the Islamic rules and regulations that leave no freedom to anybody. If a girl or a woman disobeys the rules of the family ummah, then the family ummah is obliged to punish her accordding to the law imposed by Muhammed "Whoever leaves Islam, kill him!"

And if you play your trite card of higher Islamic moralityhere, then the most interesting question would be what sentence your so called "prophet" would get in today's 99.8 % Islamized Turkey for raping the 9 year old Aisha ? Would a Turkish court be satisfied with 15 years in jail for "the seal of the prophets" or would they decide to stone the bastard instead? ...Or you would rather cancel the law to set free your holy supercriminal whose conduct Hüseyin Üzmez and thousands and thousands of undiscovered Moslems like him are just imitating ?

< 1300 years ago average human life was 35 years. so it was normal to merry children after they start menstruation.

I asked you about the verdict of a Turkish court if Muhammed were charged with and found guilty of paedophilia. I asked you about that because you've been playing here the comedy of caring for children while your religion is founded by a notorious sexual pervert and child abuser. True to your tactics of disinformation and deception you prefer to hide your head in the deep sand of comparative history not to face directly the charges against your so called 'prophet'- whom Ataturk used to justly call "an immoral Arab Beduin" - and indirectly against you yourself who worship this paedophile and scoundrel.

Let me dig in that historical sand a bit. When you Moslems speak of "the seal of the prophets", then one is always confronted with the image of a unique, infallible, pure-hearted, idealistic , consummate superhuman. All your Islam stands and falls with that deceptive image. 'Prophet Muhammad (pbuh;) exhibited exemplary behavior with his words and practices to provide guidance to Muslims in their daily lives'. You tell us that he eradicated the vice and replaced it with excellence. He nullified ignorance and introduced true knowledge. He combatted immorality and produced miracles of virtue and wisdom. He was a truthful man and hated lies etc. etc. No such a man has ever walked on earth - if one were to believe your tale.

But by Allah what can I see now? Now your point is that on the contrary this "singular paragon of virtue" was just as corrupt and rotten as any illiterate bastard could be! He just continued the old vices, indulged in sexual intercourse with children, had a large harem to copulate with female slaves at will beside keeping several legitimate wives. He was jealous of his harem and his jealousy made him forbid his wives to ever re-marry even after his death.

So again by saying " it was normal to merry children after they start menstruation" you don't realize how self-defeating and harmful argument you are using against your favourite Arab Beduin or "this immoral Arab Beduin" –to use Ataturk's apt definition.

Mohammed lived 62 years and he was some 55 years old when he raped the child. Even in his abnormal times it wasn't normal to marry 6-year-old girls and rape them when they were 9. Yet, the 'prophet' was always in search of new sex slaves for his harem. After so many dull and inhibiting years with elderly Khadidja the immoral Beduin chose an innocent child and a virgin to gratify his diabolical sexual appetite.

> İn those years ım sure ,in europe people were merrying like that also.

Not really! There were canonical laws and customs protecting children and punishing their rape by elderly perverts like your holy Arab Beduin.

I remember from my university days a French study –based on church records – of marriage age in France during the Middle Ages and early modern times and contrary to your guess it showed that generally early marriages had not been so frequent, particularly among the lower classes where the need to acquire means to subsistance of a family was a major impeding force to found a family. Daughters of aristoctrats tended to get married between 14-15 while girls from the commoners' families between 18-19. Boys married between 25-27 , i.e. after having learnt a profession.

Anyway, what profession did Arab Beduins learn? That of killing, kidnapping and looting alien property, of raping little girls directly during gazawat or buying them at flourishing Turkish slave markets. Children were massively sold as slaves to pervert Turks who were imitating their so called prophet's "examplary behaviour" by mistreating and raping them. Theirs was a brutal and inhuman society.

Mehmet II the Conqueror had a male harem. After conquering Constantinople he heard that Lukas Notaras, the same who coined the saying "The Turkish turban is better than the Catholic tiara", had a beautiful son of some 13 years of age. He wanted to rape the boy and ordered to bring him to his harem. When the boy and the father refused with disgust, the sultan had them both beheaded.

Coming back to Europe, first and foremost marriages in Europe were monogamic. The demoralizing and sick Moslem poligamy which produces large but totally dysfunctional and psychologically damaged families was avoided and itw as observed by most travellers in teh Turkish Orient that healthy monogamic Christian families were the impregnable stronghlods of the defeated and exploited populations while the Turkish masters with their male and female harems degenerated more and more.

> your problem is that you are trying to catagorise people according to their culture.<

Your problem is that you have no idea what culture means at all. Islam has completely blinded you to the fundamental facts and principles of life and history. Culture is what makes us distinct from the animal realm and from barbarity. Islam is barbarity. It is the spiritual black death of our age. Praising and following this evil makes you what you are – a Turkish barbarian. I can't do anything about your mental and emotional degradation as a Moslem beside pointing it out.

> this is wrong a christian can be a good or bad person, so is a muslim. <

Not really! As to Christians I agree. Muslims can't be good persons as long as they worship and imitate the evil and nonsensical totalitarian doctrine invented and spread by Mohammed - the paedophile, criminal, mass murderer and impostor. If you worship this evil pervert Beduin who raped a 9 year old child, murdered and robbed masses of innocent people to accumulate his own wealth, didn't hesitate to kill women breast-feeding their babies (Asma bint Marwan) etc. etc. to consolidate his own cult, then how can you be a good person ?

You are like your super-hero. Your consistent record of disinformation and lies is an eloquent proof of what sort of "good" you represent, Turkish wolf in sheep's clothing.

> you also judge history with todays conditions,like so called armenian genocide.<

The mutilated Armenian corpses were still warm as the Turkish sadists started the Greek genocide and went on murdering the Assyrians and Kurds, at the same time denying all the genocides that they were committing. Not even 100 years have elapsed since those macabre massacres were perpetrated by the Turkish barbarians who - true to their evil Islamic doctrine of -keep impudently denying their own misdeeds. Islam has eroded and degnerated even their memory.

Thus those Turkish crimes are properly speaking no history yet. They are too recent and one strongly suspects that their repetition is impending any time. The Kurds in Eastern Turkey and the Greeks in Cyprus are the latest victims of the eternal Turkish savagery which will last as long as Islam has Turkey in its iron grip.

I see your lies in historical perspective. It's nothing new. Knowing that you all stick to the Satanic doctrine of Islam I'd be surprised if you admitted your crimes which have been in a thousand ways documented and demonstrated by neutral and pro-Turkish (German/Austrian) sources. The least thing needed here is the evil Turkish perpetrators' consent and confession. Most criminals even if caught red-handed and with a smoking gun behind their back will deny their crime. But their denial is irrelevant to establish who was the mass murderer and who profited most from the Armenian holocaust .

> ı dont think that arab culture is disgusting as you claim.<

Not I claimed that but Ataturk, your hero.

I have already formed an opinion on your "thinking", havas.

Sweet Arab culture, the cradle of sweet Islam, the birthplace of sweet Mohammed, the paedophile, murderer who allowed the evil Tukish nomads to continue their normal robberies and sexual perversions on condition they would promote Islam underway... How could Turkish Moslems from the deserts of Central Asia not like the refreshing source of their sadistic pleasures coming from the Arabian desert's death cult ? Like master like servant.

>also Ataturk is our founder and hero no matter what his belief is. thats his problem.<

Some time ago you tried to persuade me that Ataturk was a Moslem. I agreed but I made some necessary elucidations. Instead of facing them you are now running away from the answer by making Ataturk's disgust for Islam and his war on Islam his "private problem". It isn't his private problem. It is Turkey's problem. If he had been a private person, that might be valid. But he is not a private person just like Muhammed isn't. What he thought and said is supposed to be sacred and binding to all Turks. Try to deny his wisdom in public in Turkey and they'll jail you for 3 years. He hated Islam in his later years and got exactly the opposite results to what he wanted to see.

True, Kemal's 'secularism' just like his 'republic' was a parody from the very beginning. Just like everything except Islam is a parody in Turkey. Yet this 80-year-old Kemalist parody of secularism is coming to an inevitable end. The time is ripe to speak of re-establishing a Turkish caliphate and jihad and to relegate secularism just like Ataturk himself to the dustbin of Turkish history.

A Turk told me the other day in moment of weakness that Turkey today is what Iran was in 1978. Imam Erdogan may become Turkish Ayatollah Homeini. Erdogan has much to learn from his senior Iranian mullahs with whom he is on honeymoon now.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Ataturk's private problem by Ianus

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2021 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)