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Nozzi: Your post is an excellent exposition of the Muslim mind-set: The killing of non-Muslims is of no consequence. Allah and His apostle think so too

Reader comment on item: A Saudi Prince's Threat to the Obama Administration
in response to reader comment: NOT ONLY NON-MUSLIMS DISLIKE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS, WE, MODERATE MUSLIMS, WERE AFFECTED

Submitted by Plato (India), May 18, 2009 at 06:21

[To readers of this post: As you read what Nozzi has written keep in mind the incidents I have quoted from the time of the prophet. You will notice that his attitude is exactly that of Prophet Muhammad and Caliph Umar who had no consideration for non-Muslim blood. All that matters to Nozzi is Muslim blood. Some readers also may have wondered why I bother to reply to his incoherent, repetitive, arguments none of which seem to be based on known facts about Islam and seem to go nowhere.

But some of his posts give a good overview of the mindset spawned by Islamic education. Muslims like him are trapped in a belief system handed down almost without change from nearly a thousand years ago. Most of us can see that killing people because they believe differently is an abhorrent practice now universally condemned except for Muslims like him. For Muslims like Nozzi the blood of non-Muslims is valueless as taught by Muhammad, his companions and his god. Reading Nozzi's posts leaves one angry, bemused and terrified at what Islam does to the human mind.

One would have expected that someone living in a multi-religious, multi-cultural and industrialized country like Singapore would imbibe more humane values. But what we seen in Nozzi is the end result a process of indoctrination that begins as soon as the child begins to able to absorb verbal instructions. The home and madrassa instruction creates the mind one sees in many of the posts from Muslims on Danielpipes.]

From Ibn Ishaq, the Life of Muhammad translated by A Guillaume: Printed in Pakistan, Karachi, Published by Ameena Saiyid, Oxford University Press, No. 38, Sector 15, Korangi Industrial Area, PO Box 8241, Karachi – 74900

' When he came to Medina the men said 'O Apostle, this is Wahshi to which he replied Let him alone for that one man should accept Islam is dearer to me than the killing of a thousand unbelievers.' Page 377

On one Meccan seeking asylum in M edina being returned because of a treaty: '….Am I to be returned to the polytheists that they entice me from my religion O Muslims?....The apostle said, 'O Abu Jandal, be patient and control yourself, for God will provide relief and a means of escape for youthe and the others who are helpless. We have made peace with them and we and they have invoked God in our agreement and we cannot deal falsely with them.' Umar jumped up and walked alongside Abu Jandal saying, 'Be patient for they are only polytheists; the blood of one them is but the blood of a dog,'….Page 505

In the first quote we see Muhammed the Mercy for all mankind telling us what he thinks of the blood of unbelievers.

In the second, Umar, who later became one of the so-called rightly guided caliphs shows his utter contempt for polytheists valuing their lives with that of dogs.

>>Even though I am a muslim, I personally feel that muslim extremists act against the Holy Quran. Not only that, they are those people that have put all muslims in the shame.<<

Nozzi you are only ashamed of the killing of Muslims by Muslims and not that of non-Muslims by Muslims

>>Let me list out what I feel about Muslim extremists:

a) The Holy Quran emphasize on preaching and yet they emphasize on killing. They feel that they could have rewards after slaughtering non-muslims. However, I, moderate muslim, think that they are stupid. The reasons are:

i) Non-muslims would not want to accept our religion due to they see the act of violence. Don't you find that muslim extremists are stupid and they have put muslims into shame.<<

I hope by the end of this post you realize who really is stupid!

>>b) In history, even though the war broke out, the war was between muslims and non-muslims. However, what I saw in the middle east nowadays, they are entirely different since the fighting could be between muslims and muslims. For instance, muslim extremists attack let say, United States of America. Muslim extremists had to know how many muslims died during the airplane crashed in the past. The reason is simply that there are many muslims in United States of America. The launching of attack by muslim extremists would cause many muslims that have the citizenship in America to perish by the attack of muslim extremists. Don't you find muslim extremists are very sinful and silly and they did/do not care whether they were/are muslims in U.S.A. and just launch/launched the attack.<<

Nozzi you are telling us that because a few Muslim by standers got killed during their attacks on the US you consider the extremists to have committed a sin. You have nothing to say about the deaths of the many more innocent non-Muslims who die. Do you also believe their blood is worth only that of dogs as the Rightly Guded Caliph Umar has taught you?

>>c) The most silliest mistakes was the launching of suicide bombers. They have to know the suicide bombing might cause muslim soldiers to perish. You have to know that their enemies, such as, united alliance, might send muslim soldiers to fight against them and the war would turn up to be muslims fought against muslims. If I would highlight to non-muslims, muslim extremists would turn up to be the laughing stalks in this world.<<

You object to suicide bombing because Muslims may also get killed in the explosion. Allah has told you that a Muslim killing another Muslim is an unforgivable sin in 4:92 and 4:93:

004.092 YUSUFALI: Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely…..

004.093 YUSUFALI: If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

Because of these verses Muslim soldiers in the service of non-Muslim countries must be treated with suspicion. I must ask you, Nozzi as a Muslim if Malyasia attacks Singapore will you willingly kill the Muslim Malay enemies of your country? Instead of aiming at the Malays will you turn your gun on your kaffir countrymen? If I were a commander in the Singapore army I would definitely keep a sharp eye on all the Muslim soldiers under me for fear of treachery.

Do not worry Nozzi, I have a nice solution for this problem for you straight out of verse 4:92: Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough)….

All you have to do to escape being burned by Allah is to free a believing slave for each Muslim killed. Now all you have to do is go capture some believing slaves from your neigbouring countries (which would be Malayasia and Indonesia) to save yourself from Allah's wrath in case such a situation arose. And if I am your commander I will ask for proof that you hold enough believing slaves to ensure that you do your job of killing enemy Muslims properly. RROTFL (Really Rolling On The Floor Laughing!)

>>d) When muslim extremists slaughtered muslims in another world, I do not see that there is a good outcome or reward for these muslim extremists when Allah would execute judgment upon them.<<

Yes those extremists will certainly burn in hell for ever if you believe verse 4:93. But probably they believe that they will be killing more unbelievers than believers for which Allah may look on them with some indulgence.

>>e) Muslim extremists in Indonesia were horrible that they would attack non-muslim houses and people. However, they have to know that some modern muslims do not put on hats or put up veil around their heads. They might even accidentally attack muslims in which they do not know.<<

What you find horrible about the killings by your extremist brother Muslims is that they could have accidentally killed some Muslims as they could not separate out the western dressed Indonesian Muslim from the kaffirs similarly dressed. Does not the mindless killings of non-Muslims bother you, Nozzi?

>>f) The Holy Quran encourages muslims to preach to non-muslims. However, these muslim extremists just destroy the idols in the temples. Non-muslims that saw their act would not want to become muslims due to their behaviour. The same is for muslim extremist. If a non-muslim destroys the house of muslim extremists, do you think this muslim extremist will accept any gift or advice from him.<<

You are only bothered that extremists are keeping kaffirs from accepting Islam. That desecration of idols is an unacceptable form of religious intolerance has escaped you. And this is typical of most Muslims, even the moderate ones.

>>g) Our moderate muslim's image is badly affected by muslim extremists even though we do not create violence, and etc.<<

You are only bothered the the image of Islam will suffer in the eyes of non-Muslims and prevent them from accepting your religion by these open acts of terrorism by your brother Muslims. What if the killing and destruction were not done so openly? Will it still bother you?

>>Muslim extremists might think that they could get rewards for messy killing of non-muslims. However, I do not believe that since they might have slaughtered many muslims in their hands.<<

Nozzi the messy killing of non-Muslims is of no consequence to you just as it was not to your prophet and his companion Umar. The chance that a Muslim might get killed accidentally saddens you. Do only Muslims feel fear and pain?

>> The first and foremost is the destruction of muslim people since when they launch the attack to non-muslim countries, many muslims that are the citizens of the non-muslim countries would perish in their hands. Do muslim extremists know that muslims are scattered abroad even in non-muslim countries?<<

What matters to you first and foremost is the lives of Muslims. You continue to prove that you are really an extremist in moderate clothing. You seem to have no objection to killing of unbelievers as long as the lives of Muslims are not endangered. It only seems to bother you to the extent that the image of Islam may be damaged and kaffirs may be reluctant to convert to your killer religion.

They slaughter non-muslims might cause many muslims of that countries to perish. These muslim, extremists indeed have to be answerable to Allah for the act of slaughtering muslims that are citizens in non-muslim countries.<<

You need not worry about Muslims slaughtering other Muslims by accident in non-Muslim countries. Allah has given them a pretty cool way out of the problem in verse 4:92 '……If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough)….'

The verse tells Muslim slaughterers of Muslims in non-Muslim countries that the only precaution necessary to escape hell is to keep enough stock of believing slaves to free in compensation.

>>Muslim extremists introduce the stupidity of suicide bombing. However, they hae to know that suicide bombing killed even the muslims that carry the bombs. Not only that, even worse is if the enemies have sent muslim soldiers to fight in the muslim countries. Suicide bombing might not have the effect of killing non-muslims but muslims in other countries that have been sent down by the opponents.<<

If you are an example of a Moderate Muslim, what I wonder would an extremist have to say on this blog. You have truly absorbed what Prophet Muhammad and Umar taught (read what I have quoted at the beginning)

>>The war in history is simply non-mulims with muslims due to muslims fought back as a result of the persecution of non-muslims.<<

You keep making this accusation of the non-Muslims having begun hostilities without a shred of evidence. I have quoted your Muslim historians showing that Muhammad was guilty of starting the violence against the Meccans.

>>However, the war that we are talking today is different. It could be between muslim extremists and muslims from another countries. What's the silliest thing we, moderate muslims, do not wish to see!<<

Muslims killing Muslims is of course silly. Tell us what you think about Muslims killing innocent (are there any innocent kaffirs according to Islam?) unbelievers.

>>Muslim extremists might say that they would receive rewards. However, what if they see those things that they do not intend to see will be happened to them since they slaughter blindly and that causes many muslims to perish in their hands. <<

You are right, Nozzi. Those Muslims who killed other Muslims are bound to burn in hell forever. So take care not to join the Singapore army in case your country has to defend itself against Malaysia of Indonesia. Your bullet or bomb would certainly kill some Muslim soldiers and you will burn in hell for defending your country against Muslims. Allah has given you an escape route in 4:92.

>>They have to be answerable to Allah about the blood of non-muslims from non-muslim countries.<<

I read the above sentence thrice. I could not believe you had written it. Reading it in conjunction with the previous sentence I realized that it is a typo. You typed in non-Muslim instead of Mulim in 'blood of non-muslims'. The blood of non-Muslims is worth only that of dogs according to Caliph Umar.

>>They think they could receive good rewards. What if they would receive bad rewards, such as, eternal punishment due to they have slaughtered many muslims accidentally.<<

Allah will definitely burn such Muslims. Allah is sure to know whether those killed included Muslims. But probably they are depending on verse 4:92 to get themselves out of this dilemma.

>>Despite I am muslim, I have to voice out so that many muslims would know that many muslims would have died in their hands due to they kill without mercy.<<

Do not worry about your extremist brothers. Allah has given them a way out in verse 4:92!

Regards

Plato

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Mark my comment as a response to Nozzi: Your post is an excellent exposition of the Muslim mind-set: The killing of non-Muslims is of no consequence. Allah and His apostle think so too by Plato

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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