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Nozzi: The Koran dishonestly accuses the non-Muslims of attacking first. Almost all the wars of the prophet were aggressive in nature

Reader comment on item: A Saudi Prince's Threat to the Obama Administration
in response to reader comment: VIOLATING OATHS MEANS BREAKING WHAT YOU PROMISE BUT NOT FIGHTING

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 3, 2009 at 04:12

Nozzi, you wrote,

>>Violating oaths is not fighting. Do you know what is the definition of 'violating? Please refer to your dictionary. Violating means breaking. Violating oaths means breaking oaths. Oaths is a certain words that is promised to your god or to our Allah.<<

Here is the verse you are referring to: Quran 9:13, "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah), and intended to expel the Messenger while they did attack you first? Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers."

Violating oaths is not fighting but the verse is asking Muslims to fight those who violate oaths. So in essence Allah is asking you fight the non-Muslims who Allah claims had violated their oaths.

>>The phrase, a people have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah), in Quran 9:13 could be implied that the pagans could have sweared to Makkah or to our Allah for certain action to do and yet they did not do it. I do not see any big deal in mentioning 'violate their oaths'.<<

It is a big deal because with this charge of violating some oath Allah wants Muslims to go and kill non-Muslims.

>>However, the phrase, intended to expel Messenger, in Quran 9:13 has shown us very obvious that these Meccans had the intention to chase Messenger away. <<

This Messenger was behaving very abusively towards the Meccans and their idols. You should be happy that he was only 'chased' away. If some pagan startes abusing Allah in Arabia like the prophet abused the pagans gods he would be mince meat before he closes his mouth.

>>The phase, while they did attack you first, in Quran 9:13 gives an obvious clue that these pagans not only violating oaths but they did fight with Muhammad followers first.<<

Totally false claim by Allah (aka Muhammad). The biography of the prophet clearly indicates that Muhammad was almost always the aggressor.

>>If all religions could respect each other and if the pagans would not fight with Muhammad and his followers, they would not be any war since all of them would respect each other.<<

Wrong call, Nozzi. Except Islam most religion do not abuse others. The Koran is full of verses abusing and deriding other religions. 9:28 abuses the unbelievers as unclean. Here are some cursing verses:

002.161 YUSUFALI: Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

002.065 YUSUFALI: And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

002.159 YUSUFALI: Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the ecurse of those entitled to curse,-

You see Nozzi, the Koran is very free with its curses of other religions. Why should Islam expected to be respected by other religions? Try and answer this question for me.

>>From the very beginning of my few comments I did highlight that all religions have to respect each other until now….<<

Go back to your posts and count the number of times you have called non-Muslims unclean only worthy of being preached to, who cannot be allowed into your mosques for fear of pollution. You call this respect for other religions?

>> …and you, Plato, never mentions to encourage all religions to respect each other and this shows that moderate muslims are not what you think so bad and indeed, all moderate muslims, want peace but not violence.<<

Moderate Muslims who want peace will not call non-Muslims unclean.

>>The only one that causes a lot of soceity's problem, the muslim extremists. …..However, we, moderate muslims, would call for their repentance and highlight all the sinful things that they act are against the Holy Quran.<<

It is not 'sinful' to follow 9:5 9:29 according to the Koran.

Regards

Plato

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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