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Nozzi: Allah asks His Muslims believers to shun their unbelieving parents

Reader comment on item: A Saudi Prince's Threat to the Obama Administration
in response to reader comment: MISLEADING INTERPRETATION OF HOLY QURAN

Submitted by Plato (India), Apr 15, 2009 at 20:45

Nozzi, you write:

>>Plato, you have quoted Quran 9:29 and 9:111 defend your point. However, if you browse through the verses before this verses, Allah did not encourage us to be violence, vandalism and etc. You simply use one verse from the Holy Quran without reading a few verses prior to Quran 9:29 and 9:111 to jump into the conclusion.<<

Browsing through the previous verses I came across this one given below:

009.023 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

Allah tells you to reject your parents and relatives if they do not accept Islam. What a lovely religion you follow, Nozzi.

Kaffirs do their homework. I do not cherry pick verses.(knowing that this the favourite weapon of Muslims in defending the Koran). I have read the whole Koran many times in different translations. Surah Al Tauba (No. 90) is the easiest one to tear up.

Go to the first few verses of surah 9:

009.001 : A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
009.002 : Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
009.003 : And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
009.004 : (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
009.005 : But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
009.006 : If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
009.007 : How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
009.008 : How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

Study these verses carefully, especially the underlined sentences, for what Allah and His messenger are saying. I would like your tafsir of them before I give mine.

>>Quran 9:28, "O ye who believe: Truly the pagans are unclean, so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque,...". The phrase, the pagans, in Quran 9:28 refers undoubtedly non-Muslims. As the phrase, the pagans, in Quran 9:28 is mentioned with the phrase, let them not...approach the Sacred Mosque, it implies for Allah wants us to stop non-Muslims to come to the Mosque.<<

I am willing to bet that your Koran instructor is a Salafi/Wahabi one (though you do sound like someone struggling to put a moderate spin on what they tell you).

Allah has demonstrated his intolerant streak with this verse. The pagans who had worshipped Allah and their other deities are barred from entering their sacred precinct by this intolerant ordinance.

>>As Quran 9:29 is mentioned after Quran 9:29 (that is meant for fighting), it implies that we only fight to those non-Muslims that are to be treated to be unclean to enter into the Holy Mosque in which Allh forbids.<<

This same Allah did not do anything from the time of Abraham to bar the pagans from the Kaaba. Now He is telling the Muslims to forcibly keep them out of their holy place.

>>This is due to Mosque should be meant for non-Muslims to pray to Allah and that allows non-Muslims to enter into Mosque has caused the Mosque to be unclean.<<

Allah had no problem with non-Muslims polluting His holy mosque for thousands of years. Was Allah asleep all those years? And why are non-Muslims unclean. Do they not wash their behinds after visiting the toilet? Did these pagans who venerated the Kaaba defecate or urinate near it? Do they not bathe? Did it take Allah thousands of years to discover the fact that they are unclean?

>>From the analysis above, it brings to our attention that those Muslim extremists that stir up trouble, vandalism, violence in the soceity against non-Muslims act against the Holy Quran.<<

You completely lost me there, Nozzi. How did you reach this conclusion after what you stated above.

>>Allah is Most merciful and it is mentioned all the time in the Holy Quran.<<

Mentioning someone is most merciful in a book does not make it so. It is mentioned in the Ramayan that Hanuma, the monkey god, could carry a whole mountain and fly away. Did that really happen? If not why not?

>>However, Muslim extremists have abused the Holy Quran to be turned out to be bad. The way of behaviour from Muslim extremists have turned Allah to be cruel and that is undoubtedly not acceptable to what Allah is.<<

How do you know Muslim extremists are unacceptable to Allah. Allah has been banned by Muhammad from ever again sending a messenger who will overrule him. I have quoted many verses which show Allah is cruel and capricious. You are the one abusing the Koran by saying Allah is a merciful being when He clearly revels in being cruel as a destroyer of humanity in the Great Flood, and later demolishing and killing all the inhabitants of many cities

011.082 YUSUFALI: When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer,-

>>Allah is the most merciful. If you argue that the moderate Muslims in Singapore are coward, you are wrong since we interpret the Holy Quran rightly and we do not act against the Holy Quran to be violent, vandalism and etc.<<

The Koran claims to be a clear book easy to understand in many places. Have you wondered why there are as many interpretations to the Koran as there are scholars of it? And that goes for your scholars in Singapore.

>>As Quran 9:107 and 9:108 are mentioned prior to Quran 9:111, we have to read Quran 9:107 and 9:108 in order to jump into the conclusion what Quran 9:111 means.

Quran 9:107, "And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His messenger".<<

The underlined words is Muhammad (aka Allah) preparing the ground for violence against the unbelievers of his time.

>>Quran 9:108, "...q mosque...In it are men who love to be purified, and Allah loveth those who make them pure".

As the phrase, those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infideility, is mentioned in Quran 9:107, it certainly refers to non-Muslims that try to stir up problem in the mosque.<<

Why does putting up a rival mosque stir up problems? In India Muslims came and built thousands of mosques in rivalry with the ancient temples of the Hindus. Have you heard of any mosques being destroyed (bar the disused Babri Masjid). In Pakistan they blow up mosques with devotees of Allah while in prayer in emulation of the prophet destroying a mosque he considered to be a rival to his mosque in Quba.

>>As non-Muslims try to stir up problem in the mosque, they Quran 9:107, "warred against Allah and His messenger". As they are those that start stirring up trouble in the mosque, we will undoubtedly fight for Allah<<

The non-Muslims only built a mosque to pray and even invited the prophet to pray there saying it was for the weak and the diseased to pray during chilly nights; but Muhammad refused and instead had it pulled down (Page 780, The Exegesis if the Grand Holy Koran, by Al Hafiz Ibn kathir, translated by Muhamad Mahdi al Sharif, Dar Al Kotob Al Ilmiya, Beirut).

>>From the above analysis, Plato seems to abuse Quran 9:29 and 9:111 to stir up trouble in the society since the Holy Quran mentions that we only fight when pagans starts to attack the mosque.<<

If the example you have given is anything to go by then it is the Muslims who attacked a rival mosque and demolished it on the Prophet's orders. Before accusing me abusing the Koran understand the context of Koranic verses.

<<All Muslim extremists sin against Allah since pagans, most of the time, did not start to attack Mosque and yet they start their wars against them first.<<

True. Pagans do not attack mosques (why does the Koran claim otherwise in 9:107?), not even in the prophet's time. But the prophet set the example of destroying a rival place of worship. That is why all good Muslims have followed his example through the ages. Those who destroy idols (as the prophet did in Mecca) or demolish rival mosques (as the Prophet did in Quba) are the real Muslims.

>>Quran 9:109, "...And Allah guide not people that do wrong".<<

That depends on the definition of wrong and Allah's sense of it goes against our human values.

>>Muslim extremists have acted against what Allah is since Allah is the most merciful and they have turned Allah to be the most cruel.<<

Can you honestly call Allah merciful after He tells the prophet that He would have preferred him to have slaughtered his prisoners of war in 8:67?

Regards

Plato

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