1 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Nozzi: You are about the only Muslim I know who admits the Koran contradicts itself.

Reader comment on item: A Saudi Prince's Threat to the Obama Administration
in response to reader comment: INTERPRET THE WORD, FIGHT, AS VIOLENCE HAS FOUND TO BE CONTRADICTORY TO QURAN-PROVEN

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 3, 2009 at 02:47

Nozzi, you write,

>>When the word, fight, let's say to be taken from Quran 9:111, 9:29-30 and 8:67 and/or any other parts of the Holy Quran to support as immediate violence, riots, fighting and etc. have been found to contradict with many parts of the Holy Quran:<<

You are about the only Muslim I know who admits the Koran contradicts itself. I hope this will cure of your belief that the Koran is God's words.

>>a) Many parts of the Holy Quran discourages us to do evil deeds and yet you encourage the word, fighting, do you find it is contradictory in your interpretation with most parts of the Holy Quran.<<

As you have yourself pointed out the Koran contains contradictory verses which means if there are verses that discourage Muslims from doing evil other verses like 9:5 or 9:29 encourage them to do it. There is no need for you to accuse me of misinterpreting the Koran.

>>As it is contradictory, it proves that your interpretation is erroneous and must not be acceptable among muslim extremists and their interpretation is the same as you:<<

What is contradictory? You have admitted Koranic verses contradict one another.

>>Quran 54:3, "They belied (the Verses of Allah - this Qur'an), and followed their own lusts. And every matter will be settled (according to the kind of deeds: good deeds will take their doers to Paradise, and similarly evil deeds will take their doers to hell). "

The above verse shows the two parts of deeds. One is good deeds and another is evil deeds. The above verse condemns evil deeds to hell and good deeds to paradise.<<

The verse does not define what are good and bad deeds. But sincse 9:5 and 9:29 tell you to slaughter non-Muslims, they should also be considered to be good deeds.

>>You encourage us, muslims, to do evil deeds, i.e. violence, vandalism, riots and etc. What is the end result of doing this as mentioned in above verse?<<

I did not interpolate verses like 9:5 and 9:29 in the Koran. The Koran contains such verses because Allah thinks they also lead you do 'good' deeds in the form of slaughter of non-Muslims with little if any provocation.

>>Quran 33:71, "He will direct you to do righteous good deeds and will forgive you your sins. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the hell-fire and will be admitted to paradise). "<<

Yes, Allah does direct you to do 'GOOD DEEDS' in 9:5, 9:29 for which He promises you paradise in 9:111.

>>The above verse even contradicts to your interpretation of the word, fight, then. This verse demands us to do righteous good deeds. It is mentioned that righteous good deeds lead to paradise.<<

If you are to be believed the Koran only directs Muslims to do righteous deeds. This means that the exhortations of 9:5 and 9:29 are about righteous deeds, Yes the righteous deeds of 9:5 and 9:29 lead you paradise as promised in 9:111.

>>You purposely interpet the word, fight, as violence, riots, vandalism and etc. Has this interpretation of the word, fight, that could lead to righteous good deeds. Remember the words, goods deeds, is mentioned instead of bad deeds.<<

You Nozzi, ashamed of Koranic violence against non-Muslims, purposely falsify the clear meaning of 'fight', 'slay', 'kill'. 9:5 says
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, …
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, …..
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, ……..

>>>There are many verses in the Holy Quran encourages muslims that believe in Allah do good deeds instead of evil deeds or bad deeds. Do you feel that your interpretation does not sound logicall y but rather contradictorily?<<

But my dear Nozzi, since 9:5 and 9:29 are Koranic verses their exhortations to kill non-Muslims must also be considered to be holy and righteous acts. Who is being contradictory here?

>>It is simply that you support one teaching and yet the other part of the Holy Quran does not support and your doctrines seem to go hay-wire.<<

It is these other parts of the Koran (9:5, 9:29) that make the Muslims extremists go haywire. And all I have been doing all along is point out this fact which you have now pinpointed.

>>You support that the word, fight, in the Quran as violence, riots, vandalism, slaughtering and etc. and yet many verses from other parts of the Holy Quran informs muslims to do good deeds instead of evil deeds.<<

Have you asked yourself why the Koran contradicts itself by calling for violence against non-Muslims and elsewhere asks Muslims to treat them well?

You are also admitting that some parts of the Koran asks Muslims to do good deeds while other ask you to do evil. Read what you have written again.

>>Is it a good deed for muslims to fight with non-muslims when non-muslims are not fighting with muslims?<<

Yes the Koran tells Muslims it is a good deed to fight non-Muslims in 9:5 for it says fight the unbelievers when the sacred months are past. The condition is only that they should not be fought in the holy months and those with a treaty should be left alone till the end of it.

>>What is your definitiion of good deeds in the Holy Quran and your definition of evil deed then?<<

The Koran is a very poor book of ethics and morality. It allows the keeping and trading in slaves. It allows Muslims to keep any number of slave girls as concubines (proof is in the fact that the Caliphs had hundreds of slave girls in their zenanas). It allowed the prophet to marry his own adopted son's divorced wife. It allows Muslims to take booty from the people they have conquered including women and children as slaves who can be sold in the slave markets. For Allah as long as Muslims commit these acts they are not immoral or unethical.

>>Muslim extremists should consider carefully the correctness of the interpretation of the word, fight, so as to cease their evil deeds, i.e. fighting, violence, vandalism, killing and etc.<<

They have. That is why they do the deeds you consider evil. Because the Koran does not convey to them that slaying and fighting non-Muslims is an evil act.

>>Examine all the comments that I have submitted with the comparison with the verses from Holy Quran and you would dicover that muslim extremists have committed greatest sins since they slaughtered non-muslims that could not be pardonable.<<

Many of your comments cotain the notion that non-Muslims are considered unclean by Allah and His Prophet. When you find something in your house what do you do Nozzi? You either clean it (convert the non-Muslims to Islam) or if the dirt refuses to go away you discard it or destroy it (kill the non-Muslims).

>>Don't condemn moderate muslims since we, moderate muslims, discourage violence, riots, vandalism and etc.<<

I have never condemned moderation. But I have pointed out that moderate Muslims like you have got your interpretation wrong.

>> Majority of the moderate muslims might keep silence but I, moderate muslim, am the odd one out to dare to voice out the wrong act of muslim extremists and I hope that they would repent after reading all the comments that i have listed out.<<

The extremists have nothing to repent about because Allah has given them clear instructions in 9:5, 9:29 and 9:111.

Regards

Plato

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Nozzi: You are about the only Muslim I know who admits the Koran contradicts itself. by Plato

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)