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Chaos aus der Ordnung

Reader comment on item: Uncovering Early Islam
in response to reader comment: Ordnung aus Chaos

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jun 26, 2012 at 18:27

the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan wrote :

> Ianus writes: "If Arabs were just "Untermenschen", then why did he make Mohammed Amin al-Husseini - the mufti of Jeruslaem - an honorary SS Major General? Do you know any other Untermenschen being simultaneously SS Major Generals?"

You don't think that might have been merely a ploy? Had Hitler won WW2 where do you think arabs would be In the NEW pecking order? <

And was "SS Legion Freies Arabien" also a ploy? The Arabs would have the same place "in der neuen Weltordnung" of Hitler as they have in the new world order of say Clinton or Obama.One can see hardly any difference whatsoever in the policy towards Moslems in these two new world orders.

> I do know of a statue put up by Russians - not for amusement though which , being a great fan of Stalin, I'm sure you're familiar with.<

Being an implacable enemy of Stalin, you may have never-the-less heard of a holy icon with Stalin. As you can see there are "different perspectives" on the man and his work.

>GIK: Just out of interest, have you ever met any of the descendants of the 20,000 victims found at Katyn?<

> "...Yes, I have and I found them less hysterical and aggressive than some Western propagandists."

Sure, there are crazies everywhere. But I assume they had some feeling , more than the average Pole , about that situation (which as you know was originally and falsely blamed on Germans). <

The problem is not who was originally blamed for it but rather who first put the affair into circulation and to achieve what goals? You e.g. repeated anti-communist slogans I had read in Nazi literature without any pangs of conscience. Do you think that everybody is so happy with repeating Dr. Goebbels' speeches and guidelines ?

>And would you say Poland is now 'Western'?<

What is "Western" nowadays? Demographic decline,degradation of school system, breakdown of family life, corruption scandals, addictions, hostile immigration, hedonism, ignorance of one's identity and past ? If this is being "Western" , then yes, we are Western and I do hate it !

GIK: "> US with all its bad points - which realists must accept do and will continue to exist to some extent - also does a power of good in the world.<

Ianus: "Interesting.You make a point which you would never ever do about Stalin, wouldn't you ?Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."

Yes, I can make those points - because the USA , the country, for all its ills, has given us more than the individual Georgian tyrant Joseph Stalin.<

It was very judicious and diplomatic of you to say "given us" and not "you" as "the country" you are referring to has given me nothing at all and taken away a lot. I can e.g. enumerate several factories in the neighborhood which the Americans bought , ruined and then shut down. There are various ways of eliminating competition.

GIK "> So rather than an endless tit for tat exchange about so many points and griping about history which cannot be changed - what are you suggesting as a workable alternative?

Ianus: "History cannot be changed"???"

I know you understand English perfectly. I would hazard a guess that you are reasonably well educated in physics. And that, as far as we know - except perhaps in some mind bogglingly curious phenomena in the quantum level - time cant' go backwards. Therefore I would say you know very well that history cannot be changed.

"How now, my lord, why do you keep alone,
Of sorriest fancies your companions making,
Using those thoughts which should indeed have died
With them they think on? Things without all remedy
Should be without regard: what's done, is done."

What trap are you setting for me this time? We talked about recent human history and damage done to us ( or rather "me" as I don't know if I may include you) by the US. No quantum mechanics was involved. Now you jump to something we never touched upon to tell me that "time can't go backwards" as if you were afraid of admitting that the evil the US and the Moslem hordes on its payroll perpetrated could be repaired and everything could be restored to the previous status. Are you suggesting that justice against Islam can't be done because of quantum effects and not unwillingness of the main culprit - the US ?

> Ianus: "You mean the Turks can't be brought to justice and punished for their never ending aggressions and crimes against humanity ? The Albanians can't be expelled from Kosovo? The Christian churches there can't be restored ? Saudi Arabia can't be punished for its role in supporting terrorism and spreading hatred towards us kafirs?"

I'm not sure how we go from my statement i.e. 'the past is unchanging' to 'nothing has consequences' .Can you explain your reasoning?<

It's up to you to explain to me why you are looking for excuses not to blame the US for all the evil it has done to Christianity ! Or maybe you will blame the USSR, Stalin and communism and not the US for the destroyed and desecrated churches of Northern Cyprus and Kosovo and Islamization of teh Balkans ?

"....the America that has replaced its today's casiono economy with Protestant work ethics which once was the cornerstone of its greatness and power, then I am afraid that before I can subtract such an America,.."

> Ok, so let's assume there are 2 Americas - I think both exist side by side - one is parasitising the other.<

These two Americas can never ever co-exist. You can't have an America where 90% of income is concentrated in the hands of 10% of the population as is teh case now and an America of the middle class. Can't you see the impossibility of it ?

> I've never been to the US - though have had the chance - have you actually been to the US?<

It's easier for a common Pole to get a visa to North Korea than a visa to the US. No joke is intended! The American master treats his faithful tail-wagging Polish poodle as expected - with a good kick and a sneer.

> Travel does change one's attitudes and perceptions. But I would hazard a guess and say there are still a large number of intelligent, good hearted , hardworking people living in cities and small towns across that huge country.<

Sure. I have no problem with American people. The problem is with the American ruling elite and its nasty agenda as most Americans will also tell you. So you don't have to be more American than Americans themselves, I guess.

> "Estonia : 1990– 1,5 mln ; 1991 - 1,5 mln ; 2000 – 1,3 mln ; 2010 –1,3 mln"

The Russian military finally left Estonia in 1994 - so your figure most likely reflects that as well.<

First, these are not "my figures" but official statistics. Second, I have never heard that the military stationed in Estonia was added to Estonia's population census.If they were , then Estonia must have been the most militarized region in the world- even more militarized than Northern Cyprus. 200 000 for a population of 1,5mln would mean that almost every seventh person in Estonia -including infants,women and elderly - was a military !

You should check things more carefully before venturing conjectures. It is what we learn about Estonia's demographics "The population increased from 1,351,640 in January 1970 to 1,570,599 in January 1990. Since 1990, Estonia lost about 15% of its population (230,000 people). The population decreased to 1,340,194 in January 2011, which is even lower than the number of people that lived in Estonia in 1970."

Interesting that the country regressed within two decades to the level of 4 decades ago.What a contrast to the two decades before 1970. In 1946 - 929 000 ; in 1970 - 1 350 000! Incredible 69% ! If everything was so bad in the USSR for the poor Estonians as you and they assert, then why was their demography so good ? And if the regime established now is so fine as you suggest, why are they shrinking demographically, i.e. dying out , as all societies do that have embarked upon the suicidal neoliberal course ?

> I'm aware that many Estonians travel to Finland and other EU countries - and even to where I live - in search of work and to see how the rest of the world lives.<

Yes. In your "most prosperous economy in Europe" it is more profitable to clean latrines in Australia or the UK than work in an Estonian office.

> Thanks for those figures on the Stans - they show a rapid growth rate of an average of around 25%+ of the muslim populations in that decade . But in terms of numbers - China's existing hordes dwarf a few tens of millions. But even China, if you take away the eastern seaboard - is surprisingly empty.<

If your American friends successfully organize jihad against the Chinese in Xinjiang,then China will become even emptier and the Moslems will bring at last "democracy and human rights" to East Turkestan next to the Koran and shariah.

>"As to Moslems themselves in Russia I have been told that e.g. many Tajiks in Moscow firmly believe that Moscow is a city created by Allah to be possessed by Moslems"

Putin should throw more money into treating psychiatric illness. Don't they have treatment for people with severe delusions in Russia?<

The same treatment as in the West for which he is working - more Moslem immigration, more Islam, more tolerance, larger subventions for Quranic schools and Moslem republics ,harsher measures against the Russians. He has been told by his friends whence the wind is blowing.

> while Chechen and Tatar children openly defy Russian female teachers telling them "Now we are masters here.Your are our slaves!" Well, you can create a perfect chaos with a mindset like that, can't you?"

Actually - what they do is create order - a crystalisation of the attitudes of the native populations towards ignorant, arrogant and ungrateful interlopers.<

Some say it is rather the same "order" they were creating after Dudayev had returned from Estonia in 1991 ... to mobilize the Chechens for a new anti-Russian gazawat - i.e. jihad.


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