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Mansoor: India is changing for the better. Do a reality check on Pakistan

Reader comment on item: Will Europe Resist Islamization?
in response to reader comment: Plato this is not a distant History

Submitted by Plato (India), May 10, 2008 at 04:07

Mansoor you wrote:

>>Very bravely you declared the false statement that India has changed and I talked about decades back.<<

Mansoor, this is what I had written to you.

…..you keep insisting that we in India think the caste system is something to be proud of. Go back to any of my posts and show me any sentence that can be even remotely construed as such. Mansoor, please don't run away from answering this……

Have you heard of the most powerful person in India today. She is a widow, Sonia Gandhi. She has a head full of hair and goes about in designer sarees.

If Indians disrespect for widows do you think we would let them lead us??

You knowledge of India is outdated by several generations. I hope I have updated you on the condition of our lower castes and widows of whom you are so very solicitous.

You have of course not cared to answer the query in italics about the state of the caste system in India.

If oppression is the general condition of widows then what explains Indira Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi and others? If oppression is the general condition of the lower castes then what explains Mayawati, Karunanidhi, the Chief Justice of India and Ambedkar the ‘achoot' who drafted the Indian constitution?

You simply seem not to understand that what I am saying is not denial of the caste system, sati, widow oppression or other serious problems that afflict India. What I am saying is that we here in India recognize these problems and are trying to eradicate it.

We condemn them all without reservation. Read some of our newspapers, see our movies, listen to our politicians, read our constitution they all come down hard on the side of the downtrodden and it has made a big difference to their condition. This is what I am telling you and you turn a deaf ear to that and cut and paste stuff from the internet showing the horrors of what the lower castes and widows suffer. And I will admit that probably all the stuff you see on the internet are true. You will see more such stuff posted by Indians than by others.

But what do you do? You do not just deny that atrocities are the order of the day in Muslim countries (including your land of the pure) but on the other hand justify them based on your holy scriptures. You justified punishment for rape when I pointed out that pregnancy IS construed as evidence of consensual sex in Islam unless the victim can prove otherwise (i.e. guilty unless proven innocent).

You accept that women are created a degree lower than men because your holy scripture demands it of you and you have no hesitation in thrashing wives who you think are disobedient. But some Hindu scriptures also demean some people as second and third grade humans and you scream discrimination forgetting that you are living in a glass house. The Hindus by and large condemn the caste system and are trying to get rid of it. You on the other hand justify discrimination against half of all humanity based on your so-called pure religion.

Just see this...

>>I am deeply shocked to note that...and I know other sane people on this forum would understand that how bravely some one can propagate falsehood.<<

Mansoor, I unreservedly accept that the story you have recounted is the absolute truth and I am ashamed that some of my countrymen can be so cruel to their mothers and sisters based on some ancient scriptures. These scriptures stand largely corrected by present day Hindus in their constitution, in their changing practices, in the leadership position that are increasingly being taken over by women and lower caste people.

Now I call upon you, Mansoor, to unreservedly condemn the abuse heaped on women in Islamic countries based on what is written in the Koran, hadith and sira. I ask you to condemn the last sermon of your prophet where he calls women animals and prisoners in men's possession.

Mansoor, I know I have asked you to do the impossible. As long as you belong to Islam you have no such liberty. You are stuck for ever with what you believe is the final word of Allah. We on the other hand can evolve to become better humans. Allah ended Muslim evolution in the seventh century itself by delivering his final word. And you have painted yourself into a corner occupied by the prophet and the four rightly guided caliphs by accepting Muhammad's claim that he has delivered god's word to you.

>>I strongly stand with all the truth I pointed about Hinduism and all related to recent facts, be it Christian Missionaries Killings, Achoot and Dallit treatment, Widows etc.<<

All the truths you have pointed out are really true. What also is equally true is that you are not aware, rather unwilling to accept, that in India we are a changing, evolving society, we do not fear to question our scriptures when required. However much we may yearn for it we know there are no eternal truths. Perhaps only eternal falsehoods.

Muslims have fossilized themselves in seventh century Arabia and are willing to accept a scripture which abuses and curses unbelievers, demeans women by relegating them to second class status, has no problem with Muslims keeping slaves and even telling them that freeing slaves will give them credit with Allah instead of banning the inhuman practice.

>>Plato...be careful next time.<<

One request, Mansoor, take a little more time and care to read this post of mine and try to come up with point by point answers.




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