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historical texts and cannonical texts are fascinating--as texts of a given time...there is no such thing as revealled truth
Reader comment on article: The Vatican Confronts Islam in response to reader comment: To Interpret or Not to Interpret
Submitted by MA Rubinstein (United States) , Sep 16, 2006 at 05:07
Many of the threads in response to Prof. Pipes comments reflect "inerrant "readings of the major western religious texts and core interpretive texts of the three Judeo-Christian-Islamic faith systems. However one must stand outside these traditions, as I do.. They are not universal and for all time. They are based on the core illogic of a divine presence. Marx and other "free thinkers" had it right--God was created by man as a way of providing some "logic" or point of belief in a chaotic world that was the product of evolutionary physical and biolgical processess that began 14 billion years ago (more or less).
However, as a host of theoretical physicists --the real theologians of our time--have shown us, creation is not a product of divine will, it is a product of primordial chaos itself. The logic of the Big Bang (or the many big bangs) and all susquent creation is the product of the internal logic of quantum mechanics--read Dr. Steven Weinberg on this--he is my favorite "theologian."
What we are seeing in the present day religious/political conflicts is the work of mankind and its religious and secular leaders. It is not the word of God. God is not dead---he/she never was--there was, if we accept the ideas of the MIT physicist, Alan Guth, only a bubble in the primordial quantum foam. In all of this discussion of theology and fundamental religious truth let the real truth of "chaos" and the ultimate result or the product of that natural process human beings and their ideas prevail.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited, before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem , or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments .
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if we do nothing . . . [99 words]Phil Greend Jun 24, 2007 21:32 The Vatican Confronts Islam [375 words]EuGene Turner Dec 15, 2006 13:19 Why can Muslims say whatever they want? [134 words]Spanky Sep 18, 2006 07:43 Everybody is scared of islam [50 words]Jaygen Sep 17, 2006 21:28 ↔ Reasons to become "Terrorist".. [230 words] Sajid Aziz Dec 11, 2006 00:30 ↔ The Real Catholic institution [41 words] George Adams May 11, 2008 20:52 ↔ Catholic Church [107 words] Northern Gryphon Aug 18, 2008 16:04 Slightly off topic, but very apropo! [134 words]Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Sep 17, 2006 16:01 Why should the Pope apologise? [158 words]Waverider Sep 17, 2006 15:53 Pope right. Muslims' response is predictably "don't call our prophet evil, or I'll cut your head off." [448 words]Michael Sep 17, 2006 14:59 Hypocrisy [77 words]Cristina Sep 17, 2006 14:16 Pope Benedict strikes again [73 words]Vijay Sep 16, 2006 09:06 Islam is Terrorism [31 words]Christine Sep 16, 2006 05:14 ↔ why christian? [131 words] Hussein Al-Shareef Sep 26, 2006 16:29 ↔ Go read.............. [53 words] sameer Dec 21, 2006 08:46 ↔ What? [32 words] Bb Jan 31, 2007 12:40 Re; "Islam NEVER spread by the SWORD" [1109 words]Greg Sep 16, 2006 01:27 You call THIS a Holy Figure? [127 words]The Observer Sep 15, 2006 21:53 ↔ One Sided MultiCulturalism [57 words] Jah Sep 17, 2006 14:01 ↔ Islam [171 words] Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Sep 20, 2006 02:12 ↔ Re: A True Man Of God Speaks The Truth [32 words] AnneM Sep 26, 2006 21:50 ↔ The vatican confronts islam! [207 words] EuGene Turner Dec 29, 2006 16:34 ↔ Faith is belief w/o evidence or reason [75 words] TomS Aug 29, 2007 11:44 Who needs this? [315 words]Sensible Human Sep 15, 2006 21:01 Pope loses his respect by passing foolish remarks on prophet Peace be upon him [47 words]muhammad ali Sep 15, 2006 15:52 ↔ To muhammad ali [102 words] Vijay Sep 16, 2006 18:06 ↔ Respect [249 words] Michael Sep 17, 2006 12:45 ↔ Understand [49 words] Sameer Dec 21, 2006 09:26 ↔ Look around... [196 words] Michael Kocian Dec 22, 2006 09:21 ↔ To Michael Kocian [205 words] sameer Dec 23, 2006 04:24 ↔ Poor brainwashed Islam apologist... [171 words] Michael Kocian Dec 23, 2006 18:00 ↔ Poor Michael Kocian......... [21 words] Sameer Dec 25, 2006 02:26 ↔ Sameer... [76 words] Michael Kocian Dec 25, 2006 20:50 ↔ he called spade a spade [34 words] steve bakmore Jun 22, 2007 10:42 I am shocked! [333 words]mahmoud natout Sep 15, 2006 14:08 ↔ The Vatican Confronts Islam [711 words] EuGene Turner Dec 18, 2006 17:55 Popes recent comments on Jihad [275 words]J. Abrahim Sep 15, 2006 11:50 The Pope on Islam [51 words]Patriot Sep 15, 2006 11:46 ↔ You will come to know!!! [57 words] sameer Dec 21, 2006 08:55 maybe Samuel Huntington had it right [260 words]M.A. Rubinstein Sep 15, 2006 09:32 The Vatican Confronts Islam Art. No. 3729 [60 words]S.C.Panda Jul 21, 2006 02:48 ↔ Islam Is the religion of peace and mercy [194 words] Hussein Al-Shareef Sep 15, 2006 09:26 Friends in High Places - Pope John Paul II, Hamas' Pope [483 words]Poles for Israel Jul 18, 2006 14:12 'Turning the other cheek' -What did Jesus really say? [154 words]Linda Jul 15, 2006 13:00 likelihood [84 words]Dan Jul 11, 2006 15:27 Nazareth is in Israel [w/response] [97 words]Wesley Landen Jul 11, 2006 14:00 ↔ Note Added In Proof [60 words] orange yonason Jul 14, 2006 19:31 It is time for reality: [37 words]Tony swiss Jul 11, 2006 11:10 United we stand divided we fall! [240 words]Ron Henderson Jul 11, 2006 08:58 Vatican and Islam [w/response] [48 words]Rick Fitzgibbons Jul 10, 2006 09:49 What 'more hospitable environment'? [w/response] [210 words]bat Barnabas Jul 9, 2006 21:54 ↔ "Paranoia Strikes Deep, Into Your..." [152 words] LDC Jul 10, 2006 18:02 ↔ Dear Pastor LDC [305 words] bat Barnabas Jul 11, 2006 00:20 The Pope Got it Right [w/response] [294 words]Susan Walker Jul 8, 2006 12:22 ↔ rational authority [57 words] Harrak Jul 10, 2006 23:59 ↔ Comments To Dr. Pipe's Comments To "The Pope Got It Right" [w/response] [430 words] orange yonason Jul 12, 2006 00:55 ↔ The PEOPLE OF GOD must repent. [824 words] Linda Jul 17, 2006 12:51 ↔ "...their own mortal intellectual opinions and interpetations." [382 words] orange yonason Jul 23, 2006 05:04 ↔ To Interpret or Not to Interpret [2588 words] Linda Jul 24, 2006 00:13 ↔ ⇒ historical texts and cannonical texts are fascinating--as texts of a given time...there is no such thing as revealled truth [257 words] MA Rubinstein Sep 16, 2006 05:07 ↔ Pope got it right [183 words] Michael Sep 16, 2006 15:08 ↔ God proves Himself [29 words] Linda Sep 16, 2006 19:03 ↔ No such thing as revealed truth?????????? [33 words] EuGene Turner Dec 19, 2006 01:48 ↔ To interpret or no? [34 words] Eugene Turner Dec 25, 2006 09:00 ↔ The vatican confronts islam [8 words] EuGene Turner Dec 28, 2006 07:56 Mr.Daniel Pipes , There is no Militant or Fundamental Islam .............. [3311 words]Khushi Mehra Jul 8, 2006 06:09 ↔ comments [88 words] Sameer Dec 21, 2006 09:13 ↔ Islamic threat [187 words] Thiagan Feb 6, 2007 02:55 ↔ Fundamental Christianity [24 words] Clifford Ishii Mar 2, 2007 20:47 Report on Organisation working to Islamise Europe into Eurabia within 20 years [73 words]Johny Bhai Jul 8, 2006 05:38 If Pope is serious , He must show this by expressing his support for Israel's War against Terror [571 words]Amit Kumar Jul 8, 2006 01:28 ↔ If Pope is serious he must show this by expressing his support for Israel's war against terror. [73 words] EuGene Turner Dec 20, 2006 01:51 ↔ To Amit Kumar [52 words] Sameer Dec 23, 2006 04:41 Tit for Tat [203 words]Jaladhi Jul 7, 2006 21:50 Vatican getting involved [47 words]Davinci Jul 7, 2006 20:51 infrastructure anyone? [184 words]Donald O Jul 7, 2006 18:54 My opinion [213 words]Jon Alex Smail Jul 7, 2006 14:08 ↔ ?????? [416 words] Mu'een Ud Deen Jul 8, 2006 11:09 ↔ Response to Jon Alex Smail [107 words] Atty Zohuidy Jul 8, 2006 16:09 ↔ to jon alex smail [137 words] mariam( muslim) Jul 28, 2006 10:13 ↔ Hello Mariam [514 words] Jon Alex Smail Aug 23, 2006 19:12 forget reciprocity. Thank god if you just survive in Islamic contries. [39 words]Rajesh Gogna Jul 7, 2006 07:22 ↔ Christians are in good position in Arab Countries [125 words] Proud Arab Christian Jul 8, 2006 09:52 ↔ re: Ethnic Cleansing [88 words] orange yonason Jul 9, 2006 18:30 ↔ christians in islamic countries [184 words] sohair hakim Jul 10, 2006 11:53 ↔ Seeing and hearing will make believing [118 words] Briars Jul 10, 2006 23:46 ↔ Christians in Arab Countries? [377 words] Ron Henderson Jul 11, 2006 22:01 ↔ sad to know [111 words] alanski Dec 24, 2008 11:32 Bush, Blair, and now Benedict vs. Ahmadinejad, bin Laden, et alia? Triple sweet!!!! [83 words]C.A. Jul 7, 2006 07:02 ↔ CA your political views are handicapped [84 words] Harrak Jul 7, 2006 16:15 "...quiet diplomacy and muted appeasement have clearly failed." [595 words]orange yonason Jul 7, 2006 02:03 ↔ BS"D???? [10 words] Kevin M Jul 9, 2006 22:56 ↔ BS"D? [19 words] John Jul 12, 2006 02:45 ↔ Many thanks! [4 words] Kevin M Jul 15, 2006 13:58 i bet many americans will speak out against The Church. [33 words]ken m Jul 7, 2006 01:43 turning the other cheek and moslem reciprocity [734 words]Roger W Jul 7, 2006 00:52 Welcome to the Party! [9 words]Welcome to the Party! Jul 6, 2006 23:39 Finally [91 words]Charles Jul 6, 2006 23:39 ↔ Famous Letter of King of Persia [1497 words] Sam Jul 14, 2006 02:39 Reply to Iftekhar Hai: I'm not sure we other Abrahamites can help. [625 words]Peter J. Herz Jul 6, 2006 21:40 ↔ asalamo alaykom [156 words] karim Jul 11, 2006 19:07 ↔ Bienvenue a la famille de dieu [18 words] Peter J. Herz Jul 13, 2006 07:37 Appeasement Unappreciated [351 words]mad-muhaa Jul 6, 2006 20:50 Too little too late..... [79 words]Mike Jul 6, 2006 20:32 ↔ Charles Martel [12 words] homeDepot Jul 7, 2006 22:41 It Takes Time [39 words]Blackspeare Jul 6, 2006 18:09 ↔ To Blackspeare: This is a joke right? [193 words] Richard Lion heart Jul 7, 2006 00:24 ↔ Unreasonable Analysis [256 words] Infidel Jul 7, 2006 02:29 ↔ Wait till they get the BOMB! [6 words] Moshe Jul 7, 2006 09:25 ↔ To Lion Heart [7 words] Blackspeare Jul 7, 2006 19:37 ↔ To Infidel [13 words] Blackspeare Jul 7, 2006 19:42 ↔ To Moshe [6 words] Blackspeare Jul 7, 2006 19:46 ↔ oh so not true !!!! [58 words] ahmad zahire Jul 9, 2006 22:47 Protect the innocent [257 words]Prejudice by any name is harmful Jul 6, 2006 17:59 ↔ Who is innocent? [119 words] BK Jul 6, 2006 22:48 ↔ Prejudice by any name is harmful [70 words] Tolerance Jul 7, 2006 09:45 ↔ Judy is confused [387 words] pdm Jul 7, 2006 13:51 ↔ Judy [73 words] Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Jul 8, 2006 07:02 ↔ think again so,so [64 words] ahmad zafire Jul 9, 2006 01:27 ↔ speak my friend speak!! [17 words] ahmad zafire Jul 9, 2006 22:52 The Truth [21 words]Kara Jul 6, 2006 16:34 not really [172 words]québéquoise Jul 6, 2006 16:19 ↔ Ignorance is bliss; war is deceit... [218 words] van der Ley Jul 7, 2006 03:27 ↔ Quebec is much better! [30 words] Moshe Jul 9, 2006 11:38 Very encouraging [312 words]Ron Thompson Jul 6, 2006 14:16 Dreams are the beginnings of reality [90 words]Patricia Zentara Jul 6, 2006 13:58 ↔ Sad Dreams [174 words] Moshe Jul 9, 2006 12:21 THE VATICAN CONFRONTS ISLAM [89 words]Dr. Joseph A barry, MD Jul 6, 2006 13:01 Reciprocity won't work either [66 words]Fred Raatz Jul 6, 2006 12:39 Turning the other cheek.. [101 words]Don Jul 6, 2006 12:22 At last! Three cheers for the new pope! [w/response] [213 words]Persia Gran-Freeland Jul 6, 2006 10:38 ↔ Dellusional [73 words] LDC Jul 7, 2006 15:53 ↔ Sorry to sound like Bernard Woolley, but... [46 words] Kevin M Jul 15, 2006 14:07 turning other cheek doesn't mean not confronting others [140 words]pluto's dad Jul 6, 2006 10:38 The pope is a appeasement clown! [20 words]Jack Jul 6, 2006 10:36 Let he who has ACTUALLY been slapped decide if he wants to turn the other cheek [108 words]Carlos Jul 6, 2006 10:15 Vatican plans to conquer/convert Islam [110 words]David Ben-Ariel Jul 6, 2006 10:05 Thumb in JPII's ecumenical eye [115 words]DL Jul 6, 2006 10:01 ↔ Consider This... [75 words] Jeff Jul 6, 2006 17:28 ↔ Jeff, you miss the point [158 words] DL Jul 6, 2006 19:34 ↔ Trickery [158 words] Linda Jul 7, 2006 10:03 ↔ DL Give Benedict XVI Credit That He Is Realistic [53 words] AnneM Jul 7, 2006 11:59 Too Late [100 words]West Jul 6, 2006 08:50 Let the Vatican recognize Jerusalem [108 words]Yuval Brandstetter MD Jul 6, 2006 08:37 Indoctrination is not compatible with freedom of religion [132 words]History Has Shown Jul 6, 2006 07:38 Another valuable article [129 words]Char Tierney Jul 6, 2006 07:17 Muslims Against Humanity! [1410 words]kamekish Jul 6, 2006 02:56 The Vatican Confronts Islam [87 words]steven L Jul 6, 2006 00:55 Shhhhh! Don't Anybody Tell the Arabist Dhimmis in the State Department That .... [46 words]gunjam Jul 6, 2006 00:39 Catholics and Muslims [42 words]Timothy B. Roberts Jul 6, 2006 00:16 I'm just wondering... [14 words]John C. Randolph Jul 5, 2006 23:31 Vatican confronts Islam [106 words]Nenette Grunberg Jul 5, 2006 23:19 The fear of Islam [133 words]f.shakki Jul 5, 2006 22:38 ↔ The Islamic threat really becoming very dangerous [253 words] Moshe Jul 7, 2006 09:14 ↔ You did not learn from history [266 words] f.shakki Jul 7, 2006 23:10 ↔ f.shakki, you are right! [4 words] Moshe Jul 12, 2006 03:38 Cathedral of Saint Jude [61 words]Thomas Mahany Jul 5, 2006 22:17 Vatican's Attitude Vs. The world's greatest Colonialist Army called Islam [988 words]TTS Jul 5, 2006 22:02 ↔ Mr.TTS , you are absolutely correct , we need to ........ [293 words] Nathulala Jul 8, 2006 10:12 Wishful Thinking [41 words]John D Jul 5, 2006 21:42 What rights? [36 words]H. Yazdi Jul 5, 2006 21:35 ↔ Paradox [61 words] Moshe Jul 7, 2006 05:55 Yay for Pope Benny! [128 words]Richard B. Jul 5, 2006 21:03 Won't be happening... [318 words]Don Jul 5, 2006 20:44 Reciprocity [36 words]Josef Klein Jul 5, 2006 19:02 Islam is Work-in Progress [266 words]Iftekhar Hai Jul 5, 2006 18:29 ↔ To Iftekhar: A good idea but... [84 words] Richard Lion heart Jul 7, 2006 00:04 ↔ I'm afraid you're speaking to the wrong audience [89 words] Rick House Jul 9, 2006 01:39 ↔ Indian subcontinent is under siege by Islamic Invaders [388 words] Lawrence Davis Jul 9, 2006 13:40 Islam v. Radical Islam [273 words]Bill Storey Jul 5, 2006 18:03 Christians, Catholics, Must Rediscover The Pratice Of The "Just War" Theory [104 words]AnneM Jul 5, 2006 17:59 Non-Muslims ALWAYS a lower ranking mortal [123 words]Hannah Jul 5, 2006 17:45 Muslims Must Be Confronted About Their Abusive Culture [241 words]Alexander Jul 5, 2006 17:32 ↔ What Muslims can do ????? [246 words] Markus Jul 9, 2006 14:19 It has to begin somewhere [107 words]David W. Lincoln Jul 5, 2006 17:17 Pope John Paul II on Islam [266 words]Linda Jul 5, 2006 16:49 Reciprocity is a pipe dream [90 words]Rick House Jul 5, 2006 16:31 ↔ Thanks, Rick [9 words] LDC Jul 5, 2006 17:03 ↔ Recpirocity is a pipe dream [167 words] Andrew Jul 5, 2006 17:43 ↔ Conversion is the only answer [91 words] docdave Jul 6, 2006 13:59 ↔ Conversion [82 words] Daisy Jul 6, 2006 19:12 Mad Catholics? Uh, Oh. [125 words]LDC Jul 5, 2006 16:08 ↔ Defending Pius XII [817 words] Noah Nehm Jul 6, 2006 00:12 ↔ You're Right, Noah... [209 words] LDC Jul 6, 2006 17:00 ↔ Make your mind up, LDC [392 words] Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Jul 8, 2006 07:48 ↔ For the Ages [209 words] LDC Jul 10, 2006 08:10 ↔ Bang that drum! [736 words] Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Jul 11, 2006 08:48 ↔ Get some perspective, LDC [763 words] Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Jul 11, 2006 16:34 ↔ When I type fsat... [433 words] LDC Jul 11, 2006 18:12 ↔ On the Contrary [540 words] LDC Jul 12, 2006 19:35 ↔ Not so fsat! [650 words] Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan Jul 13, 2006 21:49 ↔ Well said [159 words] LDC Jul 14, 2006 18:32 Interesting indeed! [178 words]Saikat Biswas Jul 5, 2006 15:16 Meaning of the Word, Radical [w/response] [191 words]Walter Manchur Jul 5, 2006 14:52 Ya... right! [6 words]Steve Jones Jul 5, 2006 13:58 It's about time [615 words]Christina Jul 5, 2006 13:57 ↔ christina [124 words] ahmad zafire Jul 5, 2006 21:20 ↔ My dear Ahmed [44 words] joe Jul 7, 2006 18:17 ↔ sorry for you joe [65 words] ahmadzafire Jul 10, 2006 09:00 ↔ Mr Pipes is great but he's wrong when he claim "allah is God" and "kuran will be reformed" [w/response] [468 words] Italian Aug 1, 2006 20:01 ↔ Islam v Civilization [194 words] surj Jan 1, 2007 21:33 Misconceptions about Matt 5:39 [138 words]Steve Cooper Jul 5, 2006 13:48 ↔ Correct [35 words] LDC Jul 5, 2006 17:06 ↔ steve [240 words] ahmad zafire Jul 5, 2006 21:46 APPEASEMENT WILL BE THE DOWNFALL OF THE FREE WORLD. [206 words]Janet Ann Jul 5, 2006 13:36 What took so long [79 words]Stuart Bliwas Jul 5, 2006 13:32 ↔ WCC=UN [99 words] LDC Jul 5, 2006 17:12 ↔ Clarification [64 words] Stuart Bliwas Jul 6, 2006 19:16 ↔ WCC & RCC [91 words] LDC Jul 7, 2006 15:44 ↔ To LDC Thanks [33 words] Stuart Bliwas Jul 11, 2006 19:20 ↔ Not a Detailed Source [26 words] LDC Jul 12, 2006 18:52 Finally! [96 words]Kevin M Jul 5, 2006 13:13 De Paolis deserves being supported But the issue is not Dar al Islam, it is Dar al Dictatoriah (dictatorship) [358 words]HARRAK Jul 5, 2006 12:54 A possible interesting result of a policy demanding reciprocity [272 words]J. Keen Holland Jul 5, 2006 12:54 Good news, but it's time for a new paradigm for achieving a sustainable Peace ... only through Justice [100 words]Norman Kurland Jul 5, 2006 12:42 ↔ Abraham Federation & Islamism [123 words] Richard Foley Jul 7, 2006 20:58 Truly remarkable [136 words]SHmuel Halevi Jul 5, 2006 12:41 ↔ Vatican prepares to butt heads with Islam [39 words] David Ben-Ariel Jul 6, 2006 10:12 GOOD ARTICLE [5 words]PJM Jul 5, 2006 12:00 It's getting louder [415 words]No Dhimmi Jul 5, 2006 11:46 ↔ Washingon, Jefferson, Adams all terrorized by islam [127 words] PDM Jul 6, 2006 10:05 confronting Islam [155 words]joe Jul 5, 2006 11:35 ↔ Joe - History repeats itself again and again [130 words] Jaladhi Jul 5, 2006 17:43 ↔ elementary demographics [120 words] G.Bisvas Jul 6, 2006 13:40 ↔ The same old, same old.... [233 words] Jim Jul 6, 2006 14:16 ↔ 'Radical' Islam is a misnomer [279 words] Jim Jul 6, 2006 16:22 ↔ Peace-loving, egalitarian Muslims are the aberration in Islam. [215 words] Ron Jul 8, 2006 09:26 ↔ Faith and Force are inseperable [387 words] Ralph C Whaley MD Jul 8, 2006 13:49 ↔ Selective Reasoning [135 words] Dan Parker Jul 8, 2006 17:59 ↔ Re: Selective reasoning [139 words] Ron Jul 10, 2006 13:03 ↔ Re: Selective reasoning [424 words] Moshe Jul 11, 2006 06:02 ↔ Selective Reasoning [194 words] Dan Parker Jul 11, 2006 18:24 ↔ Thanks Moshe [381 words] Jim Jul 12, 2006 14:27 ↔ To Moshe [332 words] Ron Jul 14, 2006 08:58
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