How Israel Can Win
by Daniel Pipes
New York Sun
April 4, 2006
http://www.danielpipes.org/3496/how-israel-can-win
Translations of this item:
Since I argued in a column last week that Israel can and must defeat the Palestinian Arabs, a barrage of responses have contested this thesis. Some were trivial (Ha'aretz published an article challenging my right to opine on such matters because I do not live in Israel) but most raised serious issues that deserve an answer.
The ancient Chinese strategist Sun Tzu observed that in war, "Let your great object be victory," and he was echoed by the 17th-century Austrian war thinker, Raimondo Montecuccoli. His Prussian successor Clausewitz added that "War is an act of violence to compel the enemy to fulfill our will." These insights remain valid today: Victory consists of imposing one's will on the enemy, which typically means compelling him to give up his war goals. Conflicts usually end with one side's will being crushed.
In theory, that need not be the case. Belligerents can compromise, they can mutually exhaust each other, or they can resolve their differences under the shadow of a greater enemy (as when Britain and France, long seen as "natural and necessary enemies," in 1904 signed the Entente Cordiale, because of their shared worries about Germany.)
Such "no victor, no loser" resolutions are the exception in modern times, however. For example, although Iraq and Iran ended their 1980-88 war in a state of mutual exhaustion, this tie did not resolve their differences. Generally speaking, so long as neither side experiences the agony of defeat – having its hopes dashed, its treasury wasted, and lives extinguished – the possibility of war persists.
One might expect this agony to follow on a crushing battlefield loss, but since 1945 that has usually not been the case. Planes shot down, tanks destroyed, munitions exhausted, soldiers deserting, and land lost are rarely decisive. Consider the multiple Arab losses to Israel during 1948-82, North Korea's loss in 1953, Saddam Hussein's in 1991, and that of Iraqi Sunnis in 2003. In all these cases, battlefield defeat did not translate into despair.
In the ideological environment of recent decades, morale and will matter more. The French gave up in Algeria in 1962, despite out-manning and out-gunning their foes. The same applies to the Americans in Vietnam in 1975 and the Soviets in Afghanistan in 1989. The Cold War ended without a fatality.
Applying these insights to Israel's war with the Palestinian Arabs points to several conclusions:
- Israel hardly enjoys freedom of action to pursue victory; in particular, it is hemmed in by the wishes of its primary ally, the American government. That is why I, an American analyst, address this issue with the intention of influencing policy in the United States and other Western countries.
- Israel should be urged to convince the Palestinian Arabs that they have lost, to influence their psychology.
- An aggressive step like "transferring" Palestinian Arabs out of the West Bank would be counterproductive for Israel, prompting greater outrage, increasing the number of enemies, and perpetuating the conflict.
- Contrarily, perceptions of Israel's weakness lessen the possibility of Palestinian Arab defeat; thus did Israeli missteps during the Oslo years (1993-2000) and the Gaza withdrawal inspire Palestinian Arab exhilaration and more war.
- Israel needs only to defeat the Palestinian Arabs, not the whole Arab or Muslim populations, who eventually will follow the Palestinian Arab lead.
I refrain from suggesting specific steps Israel should take in part because I am not Israeli, and in part because discussing tactics to win is premature before victory is the policy. Suffice to say that the Palestinian Arabs derive immense succor and strength from a worldwide network of support from NGOs, editorialists, academics, and politicians; that the manufactured Palestinian Arab "refugee" problem stands at the dank heart of the conflict, and that the lack of international recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital festers. These three issues are clearly priorities.
Ironically, Israeli success in crushing the Palestinian Arab war morale would be the best thing that ever happened to the Palestinian Arabs. It would mean their finally giving up their foul dream of eliminating their neighbor and would offer a chance instead to focus on their own polity, economy, society, and culture. To become a normal people, one whose parents do not encourage their children to become suicide terrorists, Palestinian Arabs need to undergo the crucible of defeat.
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Apr. 4, 2006 update: For more on this topic than could fit here, see "Further on Israel's Winning Its War."
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Related Topics: Arab-Israel conflict & diplomacy, Israel
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| Title |
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| How Israel Can Win [776 words] | Dillah | Sep 15, 2009 15:13 | | How Israel Can Win. [110 words] | Debbie | Jan 15, 2009 11:42 | | Crybabies [65 words] | A | Jul 17, 2008 01:44 | | Never Ending Struggle [17 words] | An indifferent observer | Dec 11, 2007 12:51 | | Defeat and Disbursement [161 words] | Jonathan Usher | Jul 16, 2006 14:22 | | ↔ Will it and win it [109 words] | Sound | Nov 21, 2006 19:45 | | ↔ Too many concessions [117 words] | Alyn Starkman | Feb 26, 2007 11:52 | | Please do not interfere! [106 words] | Arial Florian | Jun 18, 2006 01:52 | | ? [51 words] | Catherine Moses | Apr 27, 2006 15:16 | Border question for Dr Pipes [w/response] [25 words] | Harrak | Apr 20, 2006 20:50 | | ↔ Eliminating Israel??? [513 words] | Sound | Nov 23, 2006 12:20 | | The object of War [65 words] | Matthew Rensen | Apr 19, 2006 12:03 | | i wish you would understand [146 words] | MOHAMMAD ARFAQ | Apr 18, 2006 23:15 | | ↔ re: crushing wills [581 words] | true believer | Apr 21, 2006 06:19 | | ↔ Not be "aggressive"??? [167 words] | Ruth Lowry | May 16, 2006 17:28 | | ↔ The world is governed by ... [202 words] | Johnnie Angler | Jun 9, 2006 23:11 | | ↔ Get the "palestinians" out.... [66 words] | Pork Chop | Jun 30, 2006 16:46 | | ↔ Not be aggressive? [24 words] | F. Frye | Sep 23, 2006 07:02 | | I wish that.... [138 words] | David Brotsky | Apr 18, 2006 12:40 | | True victory [278 words] | Ian Smith | Apr 17, 2006 09:09 | | ↔ Stop the Violence [54 words] | Calvin Carter | May 4, 2006 14:43 | | the meaning of deterrence [123 words] | yonatan silverman | Apr 16, 2006 07:03 | | ↔ Good Lord.... [97 words] | Bryan Jackson | Apr 16, 2006 21:32 | | ↔ re: good Lord [254 words] | true believer | Apr 18, 2006 04:59 | | ↔ Re: True Believer [64 words] | Bryan Jackson | Apr 18, 2006 20:16 | | How Israel can win [142 words] | H. Yazdi | Apr 12, 2006 21:06 | | If victory for Israel means defeat for Palestine. [113 words] | John Berg | Apr 11, 2006 21:35 | | The ultimate victory for all will be when..... [409 words] | Bryan Jackson | Apr 11, 2006 10:30 | | ↔ bryan jackson [32 words] | ahmad zafire | Apr 11, 2006 21:50 | | ↔ stop lying [29 words] | james | May 26, 2006 10:51 | | Israel can win, if it has the spine to. [511 words] | Jason | Apr 11, 2006 09:54 | | ↔ too harsh ;-) [560 words] | true believer | Apr 18, 2006 09:36 | | ↔ You squared a circle [165 words] | Sully | Apr 18, 2006 18:26 | | ↔ re: squared circle [250 words] | true believer | Apr 21, 2006 03:52 | | ↔ to Jason and true believer# Israel is acting stupid [238 words] | Silent Observer | Apr 28, 2006 05:16 | | Whyever not? [442 words] | yuval brandstetter | Apr 10, 2006 16:33 | | ↔ The Sudetenland analogy [290 words] | Jeff in USA | Apr 11, 2006 20:14 | | ↔ even better [109 words] | yuval brandstetter MD | Apr 15, 2006 07:42 | | ↔ forced population relocation = war crime !!!! [137 words] | Philistine | Jul 28, 2006 22:50 | I can't beleive this.. [w/response] [267 words] | Andrew | Apr 10, 2006 11:04 | | ↔ Andrew's outrage founded on ignorance [377 words] | Infidel | Apr 17, 2006 01:02 | | ↔ Israel has no muslim significance [105 words] | William UK | Apr 20, 2006 18:01 | | ↔ New age rage. [57 words] | Silent | Dec 5, 2006 14:33 | | Ben Gurion`s point of view on the issue [39 words] | Harrak | Apr 9, 2006 19:13 | | Palestinian Arab war morale [46 words] | Paul M. Neville | Apr 9, 2006 10:57 | | ↔ On the contrary - crushing all muslims is all too feasible [229 words] | Sully | Apr 9, 2006 20:07 | | ↔ Ignorance of the laws of the creation [219 words] | Bilal | Apr 10, 2006 14:52 | | ↔ To Bilal : Don't be too sure of India and China's support [54 words] | Arvind Madhavan | Apr 11, 2006 04:18 | | ↔ Bilal - you have a fine memory for ancient history but a selective memory for recent events [199 words] | sully | Apr 12, 2006 09:10 | | ↔ Muslim Menace in Chechnya , Kashmir & Xingxiang : Reply to Bilal [149 words] | Michael | Jul 21, 2006 09:58 | | Israel must stop granting sanctuary to those who produce the killers [189 words] | Sully | Apr 9, 2006 01:42 | How will we retain or Jewish and Democratic state? [w/response] [124 words] | Zeev Raphael | Apr 8, 2006 01:43 | | ↔ A response to Ze'ev Raphael [129 words] | Sevile | Apr 10, 2006 15:53 | | ↔ I think you're both (slightly) wrong here... [262 words] | J.S. | Apr 11, 2006 17:01 | | palestinian duplicity [37 words] | ed | Apr 8, 2006 01:09 | | Israel has no other choice but victory [163 words] | Richard Lion heart | Apr 8, 2006 00:00 | | A Few Thoughts [775 words] | orange yonason | Apr 7, 2006 17:27 | | May be they can try this Win- Pill [240 words] | Harrak | Apr 7, 2006 08:39 | | ↔ To Harrak [53 words] | L Amcheslavsky | Apr 9, 2006 12:26 | | ↔ My democracy Vs your theocracy [71 words] | Harrak | Apr 9, 2006 19:24 | | ↔ How about the bitter pill of Islam? [145 words] | Barbara | Apr 10, 2006 17:37 | | ↔ the difference [53 words] | Harrak | Apr 12, 2006 09:04 | | ↔ re : Harrak [237 words] | true believer | Apr 18, 2006 06:39 | When is a Defeat, A Defeat? [w/response] [276 words] | Fred Schlomka | Apr 7, 2006 06:00 | | Islamist Supporters [334 words] | Pusyamitra Sunga | Apr 7, 2006 05:25 | | Prophesy: Disproving or Co-opting ? [405 words] | Teague | Apr 6, 2006 20:57 | | Know who you are dealing with [153 words] | Simpleton | Apr 6, 2006 20:51 | | ↔ You raised a good point Simpleton [61 words] | B. Alotaibi | Apr 8, 2006 13:03 | | ↔ Only one way to contain the walking bombs [101 words] | Pat | Apr 9, 2006 14:43 | | To commenters- What in the World [88 words] | Blackspeare | Apr 6, 2006 20:23 | | Israel v. "Palestinians"? [57 words] | Aaron Waxler | Apr 6, 2006 16:02 | | Israel vs. Palestine [438 words] | Bryan Jackson | Apr 6, 2006 15:31 | | ↔ Bryan. Israel citizenship for palestinians? [168 words] | Farid H. | Apr 6, 2006 21:52 | | ↔ To Farid [221 words] | Bryan Jackson | Apr 11, 2006 12:43 | | can Israel win? [89 words] | JAIME EISEN | Apr 6, 2006 15:01 | | ↔ mechanical problem in your capital letter mini-lecture [90 words] | HARRAK | Apr 6, 2006 16:11 | | ↔ Infidels [120 words] | B. Alotaibi | Apr 6, 2006 17:56 | | ↔ Kurds..the unfortunate nation, but not nation state.. [219 words] | Harrak | Apr 8, 2006 13:12 | | ↔ re.harrak [173 words] | sam | Aug 14, 2006 13:12 | | bravo! [216 words] | john w mcginley | Apr 6, 2006 13:29 | | Who is the winner as people die from the both sides? [37 words] | Nuray | Apr 6, 2006 11:08 | | How Israel and humanity can only win by 'soft-power'. [531 words] | Lucky O'Daly | Apr 6, 2006 08:52 | | Dr. Pipes, you are "right on"! [98 words] | Carmen Waggoner, Ph.D. | Apr 6, 2006 07:59 | | War without end [196 words] | Rebecca Bynum | Apr 6, 2006 07:48 | | What insight! [45 words] | Lisa Muskal | Apr 6, 2006 07:29 | | Don't Rule out the Transfer Option [1085 words] | Moshe Brody | Apr 6, 2006 04:58 | | ↔ Thanks, Moshe Brody [9 words] | orange yonason | Apr 7, 2006 18:25 | | ↔ right on [23 words] | yuval brandstetter | Apr 10, 2006 16:46 | | Israel Must Act [137 words] | J Glueck | Apr 6, 2006 00:28 | | israel [28 words] | Ajay Singh Chohan | Apr 5, 2006 23:14 | | Individual vs. collective psychology [319 words] | Farid H. | Apr 5, 2006 22:14 | | ↔ Farid: Very astute... [270 words] | William | Apr 6, 2006 01:32 | | ↔ To William. Psychology, Israel, critique of Islam... [886 words] | Farid H. | Apr 6, 2006 21:23 | | ↔ Farid: Thanks for your thoughts on Islam... [68 words] | William | Apr 7, 2006 20:09 | | ↔ re : Farid [73 words] | true believer | Apr 18, 2006 08:48 | | ↔ Great post Farid [82 words] | Teri | Apr 23, 2006 11:22 | | ↔ To Farid [148 words] | Tarek | Apr 30, 2006 00:36 | | ↔ separation of islam and the state [172 words] | raheel khokhar | Sep 25, 2006 07:19 | | ↔ reaction to Farid H [277 words] | Jerry KRoth | Oct 1, 2006 08:02 | | rough them up [148 words] | anonymizer | Apr 5, 2006 21:38 | | ALL OR NOTHING AT ALL--CUT THE GORDIAN'S KNOT [846 words] | martin kessler | Apr 5, 2006 20:34 | | "Winning" [120 words] | Noah | Apr 5, 2006 20:17 | | What it will take [200 words] | Darwin Barrett | Apr 5, 2006 19:56 | | The Peace Response NEVER Tried by Israel [132 words] | HERB A. | Apr 5, 2006 19:39 | | ↔ wrong on two counts [74 words] | yuval brandstetter | Apr 10, 2006 16:53 | | ↔ We WERE winning [327 words] | yehuda Ben-Asher | Apr 17, 2006 13:30 | | Kol Hakavod [50 words] | Hadassah Hersh | Apr 5, 2006 17:12 | | No More Ceasefires [106 words] | Noah Newman | Apr 5, 2006 16:28 | | ↔ Not even... [83 words] | Taj Ashaheed | Apr 6, 2006 04:52 | | ↔ PT [12 words] | ahmadzafire | Apr 7, 2006 18:02 | | Un-Transfer Transfer [321 words] | Yehoshua Mizrachi | Apr 5, 2006 15:51 | | How Israel will win [448 words] | Yale Zussman | Apr 5, 2006 13:07 | | ↔ Excellent Analysis, Zale! [95 words] | J.S. | Apr 5, 2006 17:25 | | Israel's response [92 words] | Steve V Gure | Apr 5, 2006 12:24 | | The Moral Dimension [267 words] | Ed | Apr 5, 2006 11:23 | | UNECESSARY [72 words] | CHONI DAVIDOWITZ | Apr 5, 2006 10:27 | | Why America does not let Israel win. [275 words] | Maurice Picow | Apr 5, 2006 10:00 | | Rarely said but true !!!!!!!!! [40 words] | George Haas | Apr 5, 2006 08:48 | | A small start [103 words] | David M.Sokol, M.D. | Apr 5, 2006 08:26 | | Hamas's victory will pave the way for Israel's victory [224 words] | Octavio Johanson | Apr 5, 2006 07:52 | | Your Recent Article about an Israeli Victory [246 words] | Leonard Markowitz | Apr 5, 2006 07:41 | | Another consideration [119 words] | Yair Weinstock | Apr 5, 2006 07:40 | | 2 States - very Simple Formula - IF NO ONE DO POLITICS [773 words] | Muhammad_Jesus_Moses_Adam | Apr 5, 2006 04:27 | | Only Jews should be citizens of Israel [58 words] | Gershon Ben Daniel | Apr 5, 2006 03:14 | | Agree completely [110 words] | William J. Sturm | Apr 5, 2006 02:40 | | Your talks in Melbourne [260 words] | MICHAEL BURD | Apr 5, 2006 02:27 | | History of the problem [416 words] | Jeff in USA | Apr 5, 2006 02:27 | | ↔ The siezed land argument [154 words] | Bader S | Apr 6, 2006 07:08 | | Conflict resolution and Games Theory [270 words] | SHmuel HaLevi | Apr 5, 2006 00:32 | | ↔ How do we achieve victory? [80 words] | Elisha Galon | Apr 5, 2006 09:27 | | How Israel can win the war: What war? [149 words] | Greg | Apr 4, 2006 23:46 | | Take a more enlightened view [255 words] | J.Salas | Apr 4, 2006 23:46 | | ↔ I am all for a more enlightened view! [222 words] | Salomon Benzimra | Apr 5, 2006 05:41 | | ↔ ancestral lands [124 words] | yuval brandstetter MD | Apr 11, 2006 10:57 | | ↔ Jews have long history in arab world [173 words] | Jason | Apr 11, 2006 11:37 | | Palestinans? [83 words] | Elaine Nugent | Apr 4, 2006 23:40 | | ↔ Jewish Palestinians [26 words] | Ian Lovestock | Apr 5, 2006 10:50 | | Population transfer [392 words] | Jeff in USA | Apr 4, 2006 23:36 | | ↔ The expulsion doctrine [109 words] | Bader S | Apr 5, 2006 05:17 | | Victory [168 words] | Milton Fried, MD | Apr 4, 2006 23:35 | | Time to teach the Saudis a lesson in humility. [238 words] | batya dagan | Apr 4, 2006 22:20 | | ↔ Ten Questions: What's wrong with the Saudis? [173 words] | RPaine | Apr 5, 2006 05:37 | | ↔ Answers to your ten questions. [436 words] | Kevin M | Apr 6, 2006 12:32 | | ↔ Thanks for the insight Kevin M [277 words] | RPaine | Apr 6, 2006 21:36 | | A moral defeat [2 words] | Joe | Apr 4, 2006 22:05 | | How Israel Can't Win [159 words] | Blackspeare | Apr 4, 2006 21:50 | | How Israel can win!! [87 words] | HARRAK | Apr 4, 2006 21:19 | | Israel [54 words] | Donald W. Bales | Apr 4, 2006 21:00 | | What about Islam? [257 words] | PT | Apr 4, 2006 20:59 | | ↔ It is all about Islam [79 words] | Octavio Johanson | Apr 10, 2006 06:13 | This response [w/response] [140 words] | SteveGW | Apr 4, 2006 20:41 | | No one has to leave their homes ... [95 words] | david singer | Apr 4, 2006 20:25 | | israel must win [206 words] | robert fusfeld | Apr 4, 2006 20:06 | | israeli victory [31 words] | ralph | Apr 4, 2006 19:01 | | How Israel Can Win [223 words] | Pastor Jim Scanlon | Apr 4, 2006 18:52 | | Brillant, Lets go forward and be victorious [47 words] | Michael Hevajra | Apr 4, 2006 18:26 | | Palestinian is not only arabs ...!! [99 words] | ASY | Apr 4, 2006 18:12 | | The will to be free [221 words] | Bader S | Apr 4, 2006 18:07 | | The attack has to be on Islam for the World to be safe [54 words] | Stuart C. Jackson | Apr 4, 2006 17:54 | | How Israel Can Win---They Must, but.... [191 words] | H I Winter | Apr 4, 2006 17:45 | | What about Iran? [28 words] | Leah | Apr 4, 2006 17:05 | | ↔ which are beyond the technology of the USA and Israel [28 words] | Roy Gallager | Jul 6, 2009 08:39 | | the NGO network that bashes Israel is fostered by outdated UN policies [213 words] | David J. Bardin | Apr 4, 2006 16:59 | | Keep on keeping the truth out there. [40 words] | victoria shuman | Apr 4, 2006 16:36 | | Israel must win [110 words] | gerald Blume | Apr 4, 2006 16:24 | | I agree most of the time, but... [191 words] | Anon | Apr 4, 2006 16:00 | | Too Much Sense [64 words] | Dr. Lee D. Cary | Apr 4, 2006 15:53 | | ↔ long time coming wisdom [50 words] | maksman | Apr 4, 2006 16:20 | | How Israel Can Win [330 words] | Rich | Apr 4, 2006 15:47 | | I also agree...HOWEVER.... [437 words] | J.S. | Apr 4, 2006 15:46 | | Defeating the Palestinians [101 words] | Alan Skorski | Apr 4, 2006 15:41 | | The solution has been there all along [133 words] | David W. Lincoln | Apr 4, 2006 15:38 | | Israel must win. [43 words] | Jacob Goldberg, MD | Apr 4, 2006 15:38 | | Can not convince Palestinians they have lost [50 words] | Norman Rosenblatt | Apr 4, 2006 15:36 | | ↔ Gaza [75 words] | Bader S | Apr 4, 2006 18:23 | | ↔ The "Palestinians"cannot win [114 words] | Elaine Nugent | Apr 5, 2006 12:32 | | GREAT ARTICLE [24 words] | DONVAN | Apr 4, 2006 15:35 | | Paradigm shift [108 words] | Hilary Lind | Apr 4, 2006 15:27 | | ↔ Israel is losing the war [32 words] | Obied Khan | Apr 4, 2006 15:52 | | ↔ Everyone is losing, Mr. Khan [111 words] | Dr. Lee D. Cary | Apr 4, 2006 16:25 | | What you say here is true, but ... [223 words] | Melvin A. Fechter | Apr 4, 2006 15:26 | | There's only one way to convince Palestinians -- threat of eviction! [496 words] | Dr RJP | Apr 4, 2006 15:23 | | ↔ Could Israel be hated more? [524 words] | SJB | Apr 4, 2006 22:39 | | US vs Iran [76 words] | Bob Milligan | Apr 4, 2006 14:55 | | ↔ Iran is a bullet that entered the heart of the 21st century, removing it will cost the life of the heart [176 words] | HARRAK | Apr 5, 2006 10:04 | | ↔ Iran is Aryan [167 words] | Octavio Johanson | Apr 5, 2006 18:12 | | ↔ Shihab 5, target: Aryan [155 words] | HARRAK | Apr 6, 2006 10:04 | | ↔ Indian High caste are also Aryan [35 words] | Dalit | Apr 6, 2006 14:38 | | ↔ To Octavio [153 words] | Vijay | Apr 7, 2006 10:28 | | ↔ What is Iran without the Russian infidel? [189 words] | Richard Lion heart | Apr 7, 2006 23:48 | | ↔ Indian Aryans links with Iranians [120 words] | Dalit Sena | Apr 8, 2006 05:00 | | ↔ Aryan and Indian / Jew History [206 words] | Dalit Lal Jatav | Apr 8, 2006 05:57 | | ↔ Harrak's language [141 words] | Octavio Johanson | Apr 9, 2006 11:03 | | ↔ Iranian Anti-Semitism [92 words] | Octavio Johanson | Apr 9, 2006 17:42 | | ↔ Semantics [149 words] | Vijay | Apr 11, 2006 05:36 | | ↔ Re:semantics [73 words] | Octavio Johanson | Apr 11, 2006 18:19 | | ↔ re : all [186 words] | true believer | Apr 21, 2006 06:54 | | ↔ Persia or Iran [147 words] | Stece | Nov 26, 2006 04:44 | | ↔ The story is faulty [20 words] | Gilbert Fernandes | Jan 13, 2007 14:53 | | ↔ Relearn your history [159 words] | Ann | Jul 4, 2007 07:40 | | ↔ Iran original name [32 words] | cherry mosteshar | Aug 22, 2007 18:17 | | ↔ review the history before [207 words] | babak | Nov 12, 2007 01:37 | | ↔ The root of Persia name. [450 words] | katy | Jun 11, 2008 23:56 | | ↔ Iran is NOT named after German "Aryans". [209 words] | KLAN | Oct 24, 2008 22:33 | | ↔ Erroneous [40 words] | Mahmood ( Iranian ) | Jan 20, 2009 07:14 | | ↔ KING REZA SHAH [38 words] | Jo G | Aug 18, 2009 19:02 | | Yes!!! [122 words] | Judith Sinclair | Apr 4, 2006 14:49 | | ISRAEL MUST WIN [73 words] | Sam Mohareb | Apr 4, 2006 14:40 | | I disagree [72 words] | Albert Green | Apr 4, 2006 14:19 | | Total Agreement! [64 words] | Albert E. Roth III | Apr 4, 2006 14:15 | | Agreement [69 words] | Donald F. Pufahl | Apr 4, 2006 14:08 | | ↔ Yes, But Remember.......... [207 words] | William J. Sturm | Apr 5, 2006 03:05 |
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