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Important distinction, but not new!
Reader comment on item: Europe vs. America
Submitted by Alec Rawls (United States) , Feb 1, 2003 at 22:25
The distinction between the bureaucratic leftism of Europe (traditionally called social democracy) and the limited government ethos on which the United States was founded is extremely important, but it is anything but new. It is the central division in Amercan politics since the New Deal, which (by expansive interpretation of the commerce and tax powers) threw out our system of limited enumerated government powers. (Because everything affects interstate commerce in some way, everything is now held to be empowered, an interpretation that was rejected pre-New-Deal precisely because it had that implication, in contradiction of the explicit system of limited enumerated powers.) With that barn door opened, the central conflict in American politics has been between those who want to adhere to our nation's original principles of liberty and limited government (Republicans) and those who reject liberal values (Democrats).
Government power itself gets thrown onto the scale, biasing the battle towards the statists. Because our nation has a history of limited government, we have had SOME success in trying to get control of this juggernaut (though government is still expanding as a share of GNP). Europeans, in contrast, for the most part never have had our restrictions on government power. As a result, they have been squashed by the steamroller. The socialists are ascendant and, with the weight of government having an institutional bias towards their side, Europe is doomed. It is a walking corpse. Islam will flood them and breed the descendants of liberal Christianity into the minority there, at which point they will become an Islamic state.
In America, the liberty haters seem to be slightly fewer than a majority. Thus of the "supersystems," belief in liberty has one half of America, which it holds onto by its fingernails, and is in a powerless minority almost everywhere else.
Yes, there are some distinctions to be made between alternative "super-systems." European social democracy has totalitarian hatred only for those who love liberty, while the Islamists and the Chinese communists have totalitarian hatred for everyone who isn't Islamist or communist respectively. From the point of liberty lovers, they all hate US.
Alec Rawls
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European union was a mistake [73 words]Judit Sabater Feb 23, 2008 23:52 America vs Europe? The basic difference. [483 words]Seth R Bailey Jun 24, 2007 16:38 ↔ Balls? [127 words] Joris Goosen Aug 17, 2007 06:20 ↔ Socialism is eating Europe alive [345 words] jennifer solis Nov 15, 2007 16:37 ↔ Europe v America 2008 [373 words] Terry Dec 27, 2007 19:40 ↔ wow. this is why. [123 words] Chelsea Apr 12, 2008 22:22 ↔ wow, that was the least useful answer you could have given. [176 words] Joris Apr 25, 2008 06:08 ↔ Least useful reply you...no anyone, could have given [112 words] Chelsea Jun 10, 2008 20:55 ↔ Iraq did 9/11? [247 words] Joris Jun 20, 2008 02:42 ↔ Joris- You are entirely missing the point - Radical Islam knows no sovereignty! [605 words] sara Jun 20, 2008 17:24 ↔ Joris get your facts straight [659 words] Chelsea Jun 21, 2008 03:44 ↔ Intimidation? [429 words] Joris Jul 2, 2008 08:21 ↔ Attacked [37 words] Lynn Jul 2, 2008 15:37 ↔ Absolutism is eating the United States alive [715 words] Stephen Aug 3, 2008 07:10 ↔ So Europeans have no balls huh? [258 words] Stephen Aug 3, 2008 08:10 ↔ Poverty, oil, WWII and the EU [618 words] jennifer solis Aug 4, 2008 15:40 ↔ Typical American comment [87 words] Richard Nov 19, 2008 15:47 ↔ Reply to Richard [90 words] jennifer solis Nov 20, 2008 11:57 ↔ to Chelsea, [212 words] john Dec 9, 2008 04:48 ↔ The US should help themselves, instead of "helping" Iraq [47 words] dutchman Dec 9, 2008 10:26 ↔ U.S. actually helped? [128 words] Erika Mar 8, 2009 13:14 ↔ Myopia [32 words] jennifer solis Mar 8, 2009 23:30 ↔ oh yeah? [49 words] Erika Mar 10, 2009 08:48 ↔ Sense. This makes none. [223 words] bush Mar 18, 2009 14:07 ↔ What? [212 words] medianca Mar 18, 2009 14:27 ↔ BUSH [54 words] btilly Mar 19, 2009 13:41 ↔ This ... American [248 words] Vinnie Munoz Cano Apr 1, 2009 13:17 ↔ Wrong [58 words] Erik Patch Jul 29, 2009 12:33 ↔ fool [37 words] stan Aug 17, 2009 02:07 ↔ sorry, no [72 words] maria Sep 5, 2009 14:19 ↔ WW2 has been over for a very long time, maam !!! [74 words] maria Sep 5, 2009 14:27 we all must stand up against evil [46 words]Phil Greend Jun 2, 2007 13:28 Strong Government indeed [35 words]Ryan McGreal Dec 16, 2005 12:03 ↔ Europe vs. America [160 words] Kerri Beaudoin Jan 17, 2006 15:08 ↔ We all have to be united [85 words] Alex Nov 14, 2007 02:37 ↔ Do Europeans hate themselves? [123 words] Stephen Aug 3, 2008 07:50 Dealing with Islamic Fundamentalism [42 words]Clifford Ishii Jun 12, 2004 21:19 Europe's Hatred of Americans [31 words]Jim Wells May 11, 2004 16:01 ↔ Nobody deserves what the Americans got [62 words] David Feb 24, 2007 14:50 ↔ Why do Europeans hate Americans? Be honest... [86 words] Stephen Aug 3, 2008 07:35 European cultural chauvinism vs. American multiculturalism [258 words]D. Wells Jan 22, 2004 13:38 ↔ European cultural chauvinism vs. American multiculturalism by reader [194 words] Meso Jun 5, 2006 04:53 ↔ Multiculturalism in America [209 words] blaize27 Oct 9, 2006 01:09 ↔ imagine [65 words] guest Apr 18, 2007 14:06 ↔ multicolored fracturation [86 words] guest Apr 18, 2007 14:14 ↔ The American "Dream" is just that... a dream... [83 words] Stephen Aug 3, 2008 07:25 ↔ im sorry in real life this is the other way around. [121 words] ali Oct 31, 2008 12:44 ↔ History [300 words] Mogens Feb 8, 2009 13:35 you are wrong! [91 words]ben Jan 19, 2004 03:01 ↔ you are wrong! [53 words] Meso Jun 5, 2006 04:56 claims that US "deserved what they got" on 9/11 [153 words]RE Dec 12, 2003 10:21 ↔ Did the US really deserve what it got? [113 words] Warren Jun 1, 2006 00:29 ↔ America deserved all they got and so did we [581 words] Andrew MacLeod Jul 19, 2006 15:29 ↔ reply [136 words] bernard morrey May 2, 2007 07:13 ↔ The "Poor Things" [109 words] Barbara Aug 22, 2007 17:29 ↔ USA tries to rule the world [6 words] Norwegian Sep 11, 2009 09:19 re:religious fundalmentalism [22 words]kara Oct 9, 2003 19:56 U.S. NOT the Western Roman Empire (I hope) [169 words]James Sep 15, 2003 23:57 Comment of the 'bureaucratic socialism' term of Mr.Pipes [685 words]Quentin H Aug 9, 2003 23:17 This is exactly what is happening... [191 words]Peter Verkooijen Jul 11, 2003 08:29 News debates [415 words].AURELIO ZUÑIGA RAMIREZ from International and Environment Consulting Mallin Ltda May 15, 2003 18:56 RE Sanes misses the river and the boat [33 words]Simon Debusschere May 5, 2003 10:14 ↔ Anti-American Canukistan [403 words] Stephen Bloggins Jan 21, 2003 03:57 Liberal(aka Soviet)Canukistan becoming Islamic Canukistan [370 words]Rodney Moore Mar 25, 2003 14:01 ⇒ Important distinction, but not new! [352 words]Alec Rawls Feb 1, 2003 22:25 Your take on the Sanes insight in email #294 [295 words]J. Keen Holland Jan 29, 2003 14:34 Fundamentalist aspects in Europe? [233 words]Leo Brux Jan 25, 2003 18:52 ↔ Response to Mr. Brux.. [127 words] amiexpat Jan 31, 2003 08:02 RE comment "Sanes misses the river and the boat" [26 words]Ian Dwyer Jan 25, 2003 11:26 US/European Differences [135 words]Robert Stephenson Jan 23, 2003 11:51 No, it is only Zionists [84 words]Arun Gupta Jan 22, 2003 22:38 Sanes Misses the River and the Boat [132 words]Michoel Zeldis Jan 22, 2003 20:40 Selling one's soul [106 words]Bob Fusfeld Jan 21, 2003 21:59 Common ground between liberals and Islamists? [447 words]Antonio Chaves Jan 21, 2003 17:53 Yes, Iraq is all about oil [656 words]Calisse Cansime Jan 21, 2003 11:33 ↔ Response to Calisse Cansime : Yes, Iraq is all about oil 1/21/03 [742 words] Michael Lange Jan 30, 2003 06:05 ↔ Calisse, see my reply to Joris, I would be interested in your response as well [34 words] sara Jun 20, 2008 18:40 Are we serious? [1005 words]David Wolf Jan 20, 2003 15:51 How can America oppose "bureaucratic leftism"? [184 words]François Guillaumat Jan 19, 2003 09:56 Korea vs. America? [813 words]Joshua Davis Jan 18, 2003 19:03 From a Fundamentalist [36 words]John Buckner Jan 18, 2003 13:37 Not in my House [160 words]Jack Ajzenberg Jan 18, 2003 08:53 Contrast American conservatism with the European Right [330 words]Arlinda DeAngelis Jan 17, 2003 15:11 European attitudes reflect a desire that power be shared [177 words]Marian Hennings Jan 17, 2003 13:43 The third system presupposes a strong American military [29 words]Jeff Jan 16, 2003 18:45 Corporatacracy [210 words]Antonio Chaves Jan 16, 2003 18:10 More on Europe going its own way [71 words]Mel Kusin Jan 16, 2003 14:25 Commenter Lindermayer mistates American religious life [160 words]Gail Lammers Jan 16, 2003 11:39 Who among us cares what Europe thinks? [372 words]Scott Brown Jan 16, 2003 00:10 Third Party Politics [93 words]Phil Valenti Jan 15, 2003 23:19 No More Money [43 words]Nancy Barnett Jan 15, 2003 22:56 That's what I said [12 words]Leo Bauer Jan 15, 2003 14:27 Mr. Bush's rhetorical style--its impact in Britain and Europe [260 words]Elizabeth S. Jan 15, 2003 12:43 The center of the universe? [283 words]Fred Field Jan 15, 2003 12:29 Response to commenter Mr Stasse [1688 words]Graham Spence Jan 15, 2003 11:26 Our Fault Etc. [121 words]N. PIllman Jan 15, 2003 09:59 KUDOS to DANIEL PIPES [345 words]Julio Dam Jan 15, 2003 04:30 EU's Immoral Foreign Policy: Economic Self Interest at any Cost [347 words]Shep Fargotstein Jan 15, 2003 00:39 Neo-communism [114 words]Peter Edgar Jan 14, 2003 21:34 outrage is subsiding [111 words]Owen Camp Jan 14, 2003 20:52 Differing Conceptions of Nationalism Involved Too [461 words]Tom Holsinger Jan 14, 2003 18:25 Response to "Individualisti Liberalism?" [117 words]Rich Leonardi Jan 14, 2003 18:09 The world's views reduce to two. [1256 words]Robert Copps Jan 14, 2003 17:51 Europe's dilemma [172 words]J.Shearer Jan 14, 2003 17:45 In response to Stephen's question [432 words]nickie Jan 14, 2003 16:39 Response to Mr. Spence [365 words]Garrett Stasse Jan 14, 2003 16:10 Truths and generalizations on "anti-americanism" [610 words]nickie Jan 14, 2003 15:24 Blunderous numskullery... [316 words]David Johnson Jan 14, 2003 15:24 Europe vs. America - a different view? [252 words]sid amster Jan 14, 2003 15:11 ↔ It's about time! [166 words] Captain B.Spivey Jan 18, 2006 19:55 Fundamentalist? [68 words]Frank Vosler Jan 14, 2003 15:04 US/European differences [72 words]Ken Besig Jan 14, 2003 14:27 ↔ Ignorance [103 words] Stephen Aug 3, 2008 07:48 America is preeminently dominant by default and not by design [219 words]David Thomson Jan 14, 2003 13:43 Asians ? [w/response] [8 words]B. Weiss Jan 14, 2003 13:42 Ken Sanes on unAmerican Europe [92 words]Frank Vosler Jan 14, 2003 13:23 Interesting variant of Gorchakovism [59 words]David W. Lincoln Jan 14, 2003 13:21 We're not all in this together [301 words]Richard Jan 14, 2003 13:18 Anti-Americanism: spontaneous reaction or ideology? [122 words]Alessandra Nucci Jan 14, 2003 13:10 On Again, Off Again; Maybe Yes, Maybe No. [140 words]Joe Wood ("Havoc") Jan 14, 2003 12:57 What about China? [w/response] [117 words]Jason Epstein Jan 14, 2003 12:41 ↔ Get your facts straight [74 words] Guest Jan 3, 2008 17:24 Oil? Look at the costs and benefits.. [184 words]Juris Kaza Jan 14, 2003 12:30 Fundamentalist Christianity??? [205 words]Matthew Schiros Jan 14, 2003 11:35 Anti-Americanism: spontaneous reaction or ideology? [277 words]Stephen Jan 14, 2003 11:33 Individualistic Liberalism? [387 words]Calisse Cansime Jan 14, 2003 11:22 ↔ response to Calisse: Greed? Hardly [309 words] T.S. Jan 14, 2003 16:00 Oriana Fallaci is not Daniel Pipes [42 words]Gabriel Grosso Jan 14, 2003 11:08 Europe [196 words]jamescaplan@hotmail.com Jan 14, 2003 10:27 Fall of the American Empire [284 words]Phillip Jan 14, 2003 10:15 Yes, & for a beautiful example...... [130 words]Alo Kievalar Jan 14, 2003 08:27 As usual : France and Europe against the USA [113 words]Prof. Richard Millman Jan 14, 2003 08:09 ↔ France and Europe against the USA by reader Prof. Richard Millman [131 words] Meso Jun 5, 2006 04:41 Attitudes in Europe. [606 words]Graham Spence Jan 14, 2003 07:31 ↔ Response to commenter Graham Spence [103 words] Jeff P. Jan 14, 2003 11:39 ↔ Response to Jeff P [593 words] Graham Spence Jan 15, 2003 13:30 ↔ EU [214 words] Ante Granić Feb 26, 2006 08:18 ↔ EU by reader Ante Granic [167 words] Meso Jun 5, 2006 05:41 We're all in this together [108 words]Richard Rice Jan 14, 2003 07:18 ↔ We're all in this together [101 words] Meso Jun 5, 2006 05:48 As an Italian, I apologize to the United States [82 words]Gabriel Grosso Jan 14, 2003 07:05 ↔ RE [173 words] Francesco Mario Azzena Aug 28, 2006 00:59 A fourth "super-system" with global aspirations [170 words]Dennisw-usa Jan 14, 2003 06:09 Religious 'fundamentalism' is an American phenomenon [81 words]Orestis Lindermayer Jan 14, 2003 05:37 ↔ Commenter Lindermayer is classic [222 words] Richard Jan 14, 2003 13:10
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