bayezid: Tell us what does Allah do guide or misguide??
Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 23, 2008 at 11:37
bayezid, you wrote,
>>their business was to worship GOD the way GOD wanted them to.<<
Who told you their business was to worship Allah?? Allah (i.e. Muhammad) in the Koran is god? Why would any sane person want to believe it? It clearly tells its readers that Allah also misguides people in many verses and then goes and unjustly abuses them and threatens with punishment. How ridiculous can such a god be?
And how did Allah want them to worship? By perfunctorily washing up some body parts and murmuring some verses from the Koran (the majority of those who do this have no clue what they are murmuring). These verses could also be verses outdated by 1400 years like the one which tells Muslims to speak softly in the presence of Muhammad or to carry a gift when the go to consult him. Or it could be a surah which is nothing but curses on Muhammad's uncle and his wife. Or it could even be verses which abuse some ancient Jews as pigs and apes.
>>thats the point of worship.<<
What is the point in worshipping in a language one does not know? What is the point in worshipping using verses that curse and abuse unbelievers?
>>they had their guidance.<<
Yes they had their guidance. It was much superior to the guidance that are in the Koran which say Allah deliberately misleads people and then punishes them. How can you be sure that Allah has not deceived all Muslims. He also claims to be a great deceiver (3:54). Have you considered whether Allah misguided you into believing in islam:
32:13YUSUFALI: If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."
You could be one of those men in Hell considering that Allah is a deceiver and misguides according to the Koran.
>> but dont pass on the lie that they were doing that just fine. nowhere in the sacred vedas did GOD ever say anything about worshipping stones.<<
We were doing just fine until Mohammed Bin Qasim appeared on our borders and set in motion endless killing and looting (rooted out Buddhism, massacred nearly 80 million Indians)for 700 years.
>> nowhere did he order them to bring the caste system, where people were divided according to their birth. they failed.<<
Hindus erred in bringing in the caste system. They realized their error and today the lowest castes enjoy freedoms to the extent that some have become ministers, Chief justices, and presidents of the country.
But consider Islam. You have no hope of changing the caste system that Allah has bequeathed Muslims. Fifty percent of all Muslims are considered lesser humans (like the caste system you criticize) according the iron-law of Allah. Verses 4:11-12 tells you that women are valued less than their brothers. Verse 4:34 gives men permission to beat them up if they suspect they will be disobedient. 4:15-16 tells you that women can be shut away till death if they are guilty of lewdness but men are let off with a warning. Your prophet in his last sermon considered women to be slaves/prisoners in the hands of men (read Ibn Ishaq or Tabari for confirmation).
>> its matter of studying the scriptures. that makes religion what it is. religion isnt just your opinion where you say what goes. GOD dioes that. if you dont get it, again, its your shortcoming and therefore it renders all your arguments as baseless.<<
bayezid, very wisely put. Start with your own scriptures and open your eyes to what it is really telling you. You could begin with the verses I have quoted here. These are some of the verses that make your religion what it is. If after studying these verses you still don't get it whose shortcoming is it?
>> i mean, you let your immaturity in thinking show when you bring about the 'my god and your god' shindig. there is no my god and your god. theres only GOD.<<
This ‘shindig' of your god my god is a specialty of Muslims. You refuse to see that Allah is a figment of Muhammad's imagination. What proof did Muhammad bring to show that god existed except point out everyday objects like the sun, moon, wind etc as his proof. The other proof that the Koran is inimitable is accepted only by Muslims. Non-Muslims have many other books which are far superior to the book of abuses, curses and threats which is the Koran.
>> all people know the same god. ALLAH means the god. i suggest you buy an arabic to english dictionary right away. and besides, the jews and christians living in the land of sand all refer to GOD as ALLAH. and the pagans thmselves know about ALLAH and kno him as the supreme one. they just dont worship him. <<
What kind of an argument is this against btilly's post? Because Allah means god does not mean he exists. Nor does god come into existence because the jews, Christians and pagans think there is this phantom called god existing somewhere.
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