"The Islam of Muhammad sure aint peaceful and peaceloving, where will we find peace?"
Submitted by Lactantius Jr (United Kingdom), Dec 30, 2008 at 06:01
Firstly, will you please deal with the unavoidable fact that violence was foundational to Islam and remains deeply embedded in it, modelled by Muhammad the archetypal Islamic terrorist, for Muslims to emulate? some of which I have documented in previous postings, which you have avoided, and continue to avoid, seeking to shift the focus to the "Christian" West's ill treatment of Muslims.
You have previously said that you are unable to read long articles, which is a pity, because this response to you is a lengthy article, necessitated by the contents of your posting, and what follows is not ‘sound-bite' stuff, nor suitable for those with short attention spans, but an attempt to counter your allegations with fact, and well-documented Islamic history and theology.
You say that "the atrocities that the christians are doing all over the world…………….. show the ruthless religious thinking of their beliefs," to which I respond by saying that
Jesus never wielded a sword against anyone. It is true that Jesus divides the world into two camps, those who follow Him, and those who do not, those in the light, and those in the dark. However, He never tells His followers to wage war on anyone else, and if those not following Him, choose not to, they will not be killed with swords in a jihad, and the Lord Jesus Christ certainly does not command His followers to go on violent jihad forcing people to accept the Gospel or die, and only He sets the genetic code for His followers.
It is true that the Roman Emperor Constantine, Medieval Crusaders etc, and now, Western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have used the sword, and since Constantine, have used it against Muslims. However, none of them is foundational to Christianity—only the Lord Jesus Christ is, and He never commands the sword to spread His message, those "Christians" who wield a sword "in God's Name," don't get their authority for doing so from the example and teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor from the teaching of the New Testament, rather they do so in defiance of Him and dishonouring to Him, and in disobedience to New Testament teaching.
If we want real peace sTs, the Lord Jesus Christ, The Prince of Peace, is Who to turn to for peace, truly, He is the author and distributor of Peace. My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, provides the only legitimate model I know of, which can truly give us a paradigm for the peace we so eagerly desire in our world.
You say that "I read the bible and I see lots of blood in it more than in Islam.," to which I respond by saying I don't know just what you have in mind here, so I'll assume you are referring to the violence and genocide that God commanded against the Canaanites, and respond accordingly.
The Old Covenant says,
"However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them . . . as the LORD your God has commanded you. Deuteronomy 20:16-17
Which, from our perspective, more than 2,000 years after Christ, is very difficult emotionally, however, this was for a specific people, a specific time and place and a specific purpose, so seeking understanding, we must place ourselves around 1,400 years before Christ, and the article by James Arlandson, titled Allah and God at war: Worlds apart may help us to do this, it is at,
also mentioning this piece by Glen Miller,
Good Question... How could a God of Love order the massacre/annihilation of the Canaanites?
and this article,
Violence in the Bible and the Qur'an : A Christian Perspective
Coming to the New Testament, we find more blood, there we read about the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, given at His crucifixion, and we find it revealed that His sacrificial death gives rightstanding with God, and clears the way to heaven for everyone who believes and trusts in Him. We find Jesus' divine nature and purpose very clearly revealed to us when John the Baptiser saw Jesus walking on the banks of the River Jordan, when he said, "Look, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world," John 1:29 the Bible saying, "This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners'" 1 Timothy 1:15 and if the Jews living under the Old Covenant, with its annual cycle of thousands of animal sacrifices, knew anything at all about sin, they knew it was an expensive business, because they had to keep on doing it year after year after year after……………and, as the New Covenant says,
"…………….those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. That is why, when Christ came into the world, He said to God, ‘You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer.'"
reading elsewhere in the The New Covenant that,
"God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross."
Whenever I am challenged to condemn the violence "caused by religion," or used "in the name of Christianity," I readily do so, declaring that it cannot be derived from, or justified by the teachings and examples of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Turning to Islamic terrorism, horribly and hideously demonstrated recently by jihadis in Mumbai, when, if ever, will it be over? Will withdrawal of Western troops from Afghanistan and Iraq and solving the Israeli-Palestinian problem put an end to it? Would this provide the basis for a sustainable peace?
Speculation is rife about these issues, from the White House, down to street level, and when attempting to dialogue with any Muslim, moderates included, seeking to understand the relationship between terrorism and Islam, one meets a response that effectively puts the cart before the horse, by reversing the order of cause and effect in a defensive barrage of unrelated events and injustices - all the while admitting no wrongs - which ends up in a form of self-justification of Islamic terrorism, for example "look at Jerusalem, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine etc! Look at the vicious and violent acts by the American forces and the other occupational forces in Iraq and Afghanistan!
And how about the Crusades? The Europeans invaded Muslim lands and caused conflict for over two hundred years. Conflict that included massive bloodshed and brutality!
And... all those injustices to the Arabs in general, and the Palestinians in particular! For example, look at the American support for Israel despite the latter's violations and rape of the human rights of the Palestinians, and its defiance of all international pronouncements! Israel that occupies almost the whole of Palestine, after snatching it from its rightful owners following World War II, then making its women and children homeless, and scattering them all over the world or condemning them to a meagre existence in refugee camps!
You see, all these injustices naturally lead to violent reactions, and are the reasons for the retaliation and the terrorism with which Islam gets falsely accused, and of which it is fully innocent!
But, this neglects the past history of Islam, and at the violence recorded in the the Qur'an, the Sirat and Tarikh literature, and in the sunnah of Muhammad, the archetypal Islamic terrorist, which define and empower Islam, and which has born bitter fruit throughout the history of Islamic conquest, and would have done the same in our day and age, even if there were no Israel, and even if there were no American forces in Muslim lands.
Was the forced expulsion of the Jews and the Christians in 635AD from the Arabian Peninsula - by the "Just' and so-called "Rightly Guided' Khalifa Omar Ibn Al Khattab - caused by the Israeli occupation of Palestine?
Was the continuous march of Islamic armies to conquer and occupy neighbouring lands, country after country between the 7th and 17th centuries - all the way to the gates of Vienna - caused by the USA's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Where was Israel at that time? Where was the United States? When challenged with the violence which was foundational to Islam and remains deeply embedded in it, Why do you and other Muslims overlook your own history, your own source documents, and the example of Muhammad, who was indeed the archetypal Islamic terrorist.
Let's get real sTs, Islamic terrorism and violence is not a result of economic and political injustices, Islamic terrorism and violence are phenomena caused by neither political nor economic injustices, and although the "injustices' suffered are not the actual "causes' of the Islamic terrorism and violence, they are in every sense very real, and it can be readily established that all these injustices are tools which are being used most effectively by the overseers and the recruiters of Islamic terrorism, to motivate, train, manipulate, and launch new Jihadists for the cause of Allah as self-exploding homicidal shahids ("martyrs").
What do these young men and women find when they return to the Qur'an with their newly awakened desire and determination to "play their part in the Islamic struggle?" They find - Islamically speaking - that enmity with the Jews and the Christians, and the call for their killing is quite normal, and is actually an obligation placed on all Muslims by Allah, and they are further buttressed in their new resolve, by the Qur'anic promise that killing and being killed in Allah's ‘service' Islam transports them instantly to ‘Paradise,' to ‘enjoy' an eternity of carnal ‘pleasures' with their houris and rivers of wine This is the formula for a homicide bomber.
These legally-binding decrees of Allah have been in the Qur'an for nearly 1,400 years, empowering, encouraging and sustaining Jihadists during the first violent emergence of Islam, and now guiding, teaching, unifying and empowering the Jihadists of Al Qaeda and their likes, in their current bid for a global resurgence.
In light of these Qur'anic directives, can it be supposed that if all political, social and economic injustices perceived by Muslims were to be overcome, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict resolved, Iraq and Afghanistan stabilized, along with the withdrawal of all of the international forces from those countries, and all Muslim lands - would then, the Qur'anic "Jihad obligation" be rescinded?
And if so, would then Surah 5:51-52 - be changed to read, "O ye who believe, go ahead and take the Jews and the Christians as your friends?" and Surah 5:82, be changed to read:"...the closest to those who have believed (the Muslims) are the Jews?"
In other words - does Jihad in Islam come to an end when all perceived injustices are overcome and put right? would we then, under these ideal conditions have a truly "sustainable peace?" Or, can it be that Jihad can only end, when all the peoples of the earth have submitted, surrendered and been converted to Islam?
In saying that "Jesus never said he came to abolish the law, he came to fulfil the law, so according to you he agrees with what in the Torah," you show a misunderstanding of how He came to fulfil the law and the prophets, and this is not surprising, since many Christians also misunderstand these words of His, recorded at Matthew 5:17-20, so it is not surprising that you and many other Muslims also misunderstand them.
Jesus' followers honour and revere the Old Testament, but we interpret it through the Lord Jesus Christ and the new era of salvation and fulfillment that He ushered in on the day He was born, and His three-year ministry, culminating in His death and resurrection from the dead and His establishment of His church, makes all the difference in the transition from the Old Testament to the New Testament; in those three short years, He ushered in a new era of salvation, although the old era contained the seeds of the new.
Matthew 5:17-20 is a complex passage, because among other reasons, at first glance it seems that the Law and the Prophets a New Testament way of saying the entire Scriptures, (cf. Matthew 22:40; Luke 16:16) is still in full force until heaven and earth pass away. "The Old Testament is to the New Testament what promise is to fulfillment." How then, did, does, and shall the Lord Jesus Christ fulfill the promises of the Old Testament? and for a detailed analysis and exegesis of this complex passage, I recommend a fine article by James Arlandson, titled How Jesus Christ fulfills the Old Testament An Analysis of Matthew 5:17-20 which can be found at http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/fulfilled.htm
In conclusion, I readily admit that there is much that is hateful in my postings sTs, but please don't blame me, I didn't write it, I source everything I write about the Islam of Muhammad, the archetypal Islamic terrorist, in Islam's most authoritative documents, the Qur'an, the Sahi Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim, and the Sirat and Tarikh literature.
I also readily agree that not all Muslims are Islamic terrorists, and I am truly grateful they are not, they are in fact, living very much better lives than Muhammad lived. However, it is the case that all Islamic terrorists are religiously motivated Muslims, following the sunnah of Muhammad and the teaching of the Qur'an, and the fact remains, however unpleasant that may be for you to acknowledge sTs, that Muhammad was the archetypal Islamic terrorist. Muhammad sets the genetic code for Islam, he is Islam, and the Islam of Muhammad sure aint peaceful and peaceloving. Muhammad is foundational for Islam, and he indeed endorses using a sword, actually swinging one on his frequent military raids and wars.
With kind regards and best wishes
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