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we owe Islam nothing

Reader comment on item: Still Asleep After Mumbai
in response to reader comment: point stressed.

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Jan 5, 2009 at 22:50

Bayezid , in his efforts at justifying Islamic fundamentalism continues:

(BTW Bayezid - the use of bold characters is pretty much the equivalent of shouting. If you have a point to make 'shouting' is not necessary in conveying it. )

>>GI Wrote:

But it Islam is only your 'truth' - it is not ours - despite what you would like to think. No one objects or has objected that you have your 'truth' in your cultures and regions but Muslims should understand we do not want it in ours. Much the same as Muslims do not want any other ideology in their areas."

".....thats what you think. "

Yes, that's why I wrote what I said without any equivocation. My point is clear. I KNOW this to be a fact - as I also know most people in my own culture think the same.

"......it is the duty of the muslims to spread this word of ALLAH. so we are actually following the deen in doing so. "

Christians would say the same things about their religiioin. in Muslim countries they are persecuted for it - some even killed. Why should Muslim beliefs as to their supremacy hold any greater rights than Christians - especially in Judeo/Christian cultures?

"many non muslims even in your land (australia) are interested in islam and are reverting to islam."

I know you really want to believe that and I'm sure you'll get some letters statin anecdotes from people from Bagladesh saying the belive this to be so - but it simply is not the case. Some disaffected Western youth may have stepped into Islam - but the vast majority of these will again step out (we don't have laws against that here) - and continue on their way in searching for a belief system that holds zero superstition.

You don't really have any idea how badly Muslims have damaged their own cause or how much people distrust Muslims given the vast chasm between what they do and what they say. I'm sure you'll respond saying you know more about my own country than I do - an attitude which is laughable. And no, Islam is not the fastest growing relgion in Australia - Buddhism is.

".....this is for mankind and everyone has a right to know about islam regardless oftheir local prejudices."

sure - the same way we have a right to know how to make falafel. But we don't need to immerse ourselves in a primitive philosophy in order to find out about it. People can read about it, research it on Google and watch the results of Islamic practices by viewing the attitudes and beliefs and the condition of Muslim nations on TV.

They will then compare it to their own - realise it is a retrograde system - and naturally enough say 'Islam? Nein danke!'

".....so ill ask you now : who is this we ??"

99% of the sane population of western nations do not want a backward, totalitarian, supremacist belief system imposed upon them by a bunch of bloodthirsty fanatics who see it as their duty to do so.

The same as you would not want a bucnh of Christains or Hindus to do in Bangladesh no doubrt. Is that so hard to follow or accept?

"........you and dhimmi and kman?"

We are unknown to each other.

What is this - the persecuted Muslim syndrome? You think that people who don't buy your BS are grouped together in some sort of vendetta against you? You could extrapolate that to the whole Western world - and China and India and Russia and south-east Asia and South America and most of Africa. Just because we don't buy your BS and have not done so for a millenia and show know signs of doing so and never will - it does NOT mean there is a vendetta against Muslims.


".....from ur comment above it can be deduced that you do not even want muslims to do one of their basic duty :dawah. or invitation.'

It is their self-assigned duty. It has nothing to do with us and our cultures. In any case they haven't even got it together in their own cultures and want to spread their fantasy to others? If they WERE examples of some of what it is they think they believe then we MIGHT listen. Clean up your own backyard.


".... And you wonder why that guy was pissed?"

Which guy - Mansoor - drunk? Angry because he is not able to 'crush the skulls of the infidels', blah blah blah. What had anyone done to him persoanlly. Where was his much vaunted Islamic peace?

"......we have to value what ALLAH says before giving any weight to your demands. ALLAH comes first. so, tough."

We - being our own selves , do not have to give weight to your self-assigned demands. There is no compulsion in religion remember. Or does the prophet lie? Are you so narcissistic that you believe 'Allah' needs your help????


GI wrote:

>> But you have more than an equal platform within your own culture. It' s just that you (Muslims) insist on widening the audience bases amongst OUR audience. What can you expect? And the so called 'bias' comes from the fact that a free and open media reports the many negative events caused by Muslims as to the few caused by non-Muslims. When' s the last time you heard of a beheading done by disaffected Buddhists to a person he had never met before? Why aren't angry Serbs, pissed off at losing Kosovo, suicide bombing Americans? It's not so much bias constructed by the West - it's that , based on past performance, the balance of probablities makes it much more likely than not that the person or persons who commit a terrorist crime will be a person who holds the Islam ideology to be true (whether or not that person, after reading the life of Mohammed , understands he is not acting out the 'true' Islam) "

"....the people of your land welcome islam. "

Don't mistake allowance for welcome. We tolerate Islam but also understand it is a Trojan horse and is That's why its most prominent adherents (and others) are watched closely by government agencies. That's why Ayaan Hirsi Ali, when she was here was under armed AFP protection. We realise there are crazies in our midst. We welcome Theravada and Mahayana and Zen Buddhism, Cao Daism and there are now many Hindu temples here. against our basic ethics.

"......there will always be prejudiced people who are xenophobic and they learn about islam in time."

Use of such coloured words as 'prejudiced', 'xenophobia' does not further your point. People with common sense who disagree with your promotion of your arabian belief system does not make them 'xenophobic'., or 'prejudiced'. In a nutshell, you would like them to believe as you believe. What if they would like you to believe as they believe - would you resist that? Then who is 'xenophobic' or 'prejudiced'???

"....i suggest you speak only for your own self. "

You can suggest all you want but most people in my country would agree with what I've said. And I'd venture to say most people in Russia where I have lived and most other non-Islamic countries would agree. You have your religion - if you are happy with it keep it. But do not imagine for a second you have a right to foist it on anyone else. You'll piss 'Allah' off.

".....and the media has never been truthful. "

Muslim persection sysndrome? Never ? You mean the 9/11, London metro and Spanish etc etc videos were all done on a stage at Warner brothers? Or Bollywood? That Hamas and hezbollah do not want Israel destroyed? And seein tghe media insludes the Net - that dear Mansoor does not want the skulls of 'infidel' Indians and others crushed ?

"...... it jst preys on your stupidity to pass on informatin to serve the interests fo the rich. the media is just another business. and the more they tell you what you wnat to hear, the more money they earn. simple."

Your supposed insight is a cliche of paranoid conspiracists. Do they have media in Bangladesh too? How does it work there? Here - we choose to read or watch or listen to what we want to . We make up our own minds to buy or not to buy a product, service or anything. Information comes form so many sources - there is no bogeyman in charge controlling everyones monds or actions. People do not occupy their time watching TV 24/7.

"......actully serbs would have more in common with suicide bombings than islam. "

Not` really. Serbs are helped in three ways: being Orthodox Christians know it is against their religion to do such a thing; they have genes for self preservation which are active; They have the basic intelligence to realise the futulity of such actions.


".....we dont have any permission for this kind of act. or for terrorism.
"

Good - maybe not in Bangladesh - but in other Islamic countries - they certainly believ they do.

>>

Being angry about political issues , to the extent that you'd like to see people's skulls crushed etc indicates a distinct lack of inner peace to me. It seems he is not following his own religion properly , if Islam is a religion of peace. No one is holding a gun to his head. Instead of griping about a situation - he could be taking practical steps in his own life to fix the source of his inner disatisfaction.."

".........it just shows you dont know where to look for examples. people dont define the deen, ALLAH does. in HIS book. and this tactic youve used here is very old. thought you should know."

What 'tactic' are you talking about? I am not using any . I do not read a book on 'tactics to use against islam'! I have just made observations. If these observations have been pointed out to Muslims for a very long time - then they must be common observations.

Why aren't they listening???

GI wrote:

"....They have Sharia etc there don't they? What else do they need?"

".................they simply need to follow it. becasue they dont they are in such a mess."

But they do follow it are still in such a mess- even with all the money some of these places have : -Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Egypt , Morroco, Nigeria , Syria, Jordan and even Turkey amongst many others follow it to one extreme or another - with the most liberal, Turkey still finding it hard to comply with EU charter on the rights of EU citizens.

GI wrote of Mansoor's childish outbursts:

"We can say it wasn't compassion, detachment or tolerance."

"..........and you shouldnt either"
of course i should express the obvious. Why hide behind political correctness? The guy needs some help to see his enemies are those of his own creation.

".... . its natural for the guy to express some form of dissatisfaction to a people that deny the source and reason for compassion and tolerance."

So in essence you are justifying your fellow Muslims hatred of non-Muslim Indians. The Indians have been at the forefront of the search for enlightenment for millenia. They do not deny Muslims in Pakistan or anywhere else to read their Korans and believe what they want to believe.
There is a point where governments must act for the good of society. If some brainwashed fundametalist idiots decide it is OK to kill and torture and maim 200+ innocent people the Indian government cab do nothing else but neutralise them and indulge them in their fantasies of dying for 'Allah'.

Submitting....

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