bayezid: Read 2:106, 8:65-66, 16:101 and 13:39 for some Koranic contradictions
Reader comment on item: Still Asleep After Mumbai
in response to reader comment: if its GOD's vendetta against you, shouldn't you be on your knees?

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 20, 2008 at 01:58

bayezid you wrote:

>>the quran does not have contradicitions or incongruities. these are simply your inability to perceive what ALLAH is tlking about. although it is easy to. <<

bayezid since you claim the Koran does not have contradiction I suspect you have read and understood it. Allow me, an unbeliever, to show you some of the contradictions and absurdities in the Koran.

002.106 YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things.

In this verse Allah is informing the prophet and his listeners that He can abrogate verses replacing with something better since He has the power to do so. This verse makes Allah sound pretty silly because it tells us that He did not know that the verse He revealed the first time would be cancelled by another because He thought of a better one later. Can you see how ridiculous this sounds against Allah's claim of being all knowing?

008.065YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

008:066: For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah: for Allah is with those who patiently persevere. )

Your all-knowing Allah has revealed with these verses that He realized His followers had a weak point only after He had revealed to them that they were to take on ten times their number and even the bravest of Muslims realized that He was asking them to do the impossible. Verses 6:66 contradicts verse 65. Either that or Allah did not know the capabilities of his believers and His claim to be all-knowing is proven to be false.

016.101 YUSUFALI: When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

The words in brackets are put in there by the translator and are not part of the verse. Why does an all-knowing Allah have to substitute one revelation for another. If this is a reference to the Torah and Bible it goes to show that Allah took several hundred years to fine tune his revelation and come up with a final version, the Koran. Again His claim to be all-knowing god takes a beating.

013.039 YUSUFALI: Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book

Allah has the Mother of the Book but He says in this verse that He blots out some verses. This would mean that the Mother of the Book keeps changing to meet Allah's whims. Is it not possible that it might please Allah to blot out the Koran He has revealed? This verse makes that possible. And He has the power to abrogate anything as He informs you in 2:106 quoted above.

bayezid, I suggest you visit your nearest Islamic scholar and ask him how to overcome these conundrums.

>> islam is how we should lead lives as per the will of GOD. it is HIM talking. not any prophet. or any people. your scripture cannot say the same for itself and no other books can either. <<

Very true bayezid, we cannot say the same about our scriptures as the Koran says about itself. For instance it tells Muslims that they have an ironclad guarantee of paradise if they kill or are killed in Allah's cause (9:111). Most of our scriptures do not deride unbelievers in them as najees, unclean and ban them from our holy places like the Koran does(9:28). Our scriptures do not tell us to beat our wives on mere suspicion of disobedience (4:34) And our scriptures do not tell us, like yours, that unbelief in them would mean unspeakable tortures for eternity like the Koran does (4:56)

>>the only way for you to find tht out is to actually read the quran. which i doubt you do.<<

I have read your Koran in at three different translations and I have quoted some verses to disprove your claims. Now show us that these verses have a different meaning or interpretation

>>unless and until you do that, i suggest you do not waste your time and mine by posting hate messages about islam based on your intolerance.<<

What hate do you see in this post? The Koran contains more than 400 verses which promise horrible punishments for people of other faiths. And I can show you hate in verse after verse in the Koran for the vast majority of mankind. In verses like 3:110, 5:51, 9:95, 9:28…Allah calls unbelievers i.e people of other religions perverts, abominations, unclean etc. Read your Koran with open eyes, bayezid, and you will read open hatred for non-Muslims.

>>taking orders from GOD can mean many things. depends on circumstances. for different problems HE has ordered us to take different paths to solutions. are you intimidated by the fact that ALLAH does not allow us to remain silent in the face of your oppression?<<

We are intimidated by the fact Allah has a very funny concept of what is oppression. He seems to think that refusing to believe in Him is oppression. He seems to think that worshipping idols is fitna and Muslims can take military action to put an end to it. All the Muslim suicide bombers and machinegunners running berserk all over the world seem to think they have orders from Allah to do so. For confirmation read 9:111 again. Allah tells Muslims that just being a disbeliever in Him is oppression as He claims He is the only one who has a RIGHT to be worshipped.

>> in fact you should be uncomfrtable if you are against GOD. i am sure you would say GOD is good if HE ordered believers to be quiet and not to fight back.<<

Allah did not just order believers to fight back, He ordered them to go and conquer lands in every direction. Did the Persians have a right to fight back against invading Muslims? Did the Copts have a right to fight back? Did the Hindus have a right to fight back against invading Muslims? Did the Christians of Iraq, and Syria have a right to fight back the Muslims? Allah is good to the Muslims as he allows them to invade everyone but does not consider it aggression but fighting back against oppressors. Yes we are very uncomfortable with your Allah and his concept of oppression.

>>so GOD, according to you is good and just and not a 'terrorist' s long as HE conforms to your wishes?<<

bayezid, our wishes are to be left alone to worship bits and pieces of wood or stone since it pleases us to do so. Allah cannot arrogate the right to torture and terrorise for such an innocent deed.

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

008.060
YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, …..."

>>that is not just selfish on your part, but it's downright embarassing for your character resume.<<

How good does Allah's (i.e. Muhammad's) resume look to you after you read what He has to say about unbelievers:

8:55: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

007.176: If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; …..

Allah, if nothing, else has a nice way with words! Which is why infidels are terror stricken when they read His resume.

>>i believe i explained GOD earlier to you. HE establishes HIS will. not ours.<<

Allah has proved He is incapable of establishing His will since time began. Does not Allah want his religion to prevail? What then explains the fact that the vast majority of mankind is made of unbelievers? The will of the majority of mankind is unbelief and Allah's will has proven powerless against it.

>>HE is not your genie that HE grants wishes and disappears.<<

Allah is a genie in a bottle. He pops up to instruct one prophet and then disappears till another man comes along claiming to be a prophet and uncorks the bottle to let Allah out again. This happened for thousands of years until Muhammad came along and corked up Allah for good in a new unbreakable stainless steel bottle called the Koran. Now no other man or woman can come along and uncork Allah.

>>i suspect you have had a very bad moral science teacher when you were a little child for which you dont have the proper idea of GOD.<<

Let us see what your moral science teacher (mullah) taught you. Correct me if I am wrong, one of the first things he must have taught is that disbelievers in Allah are unclean (najees) and immoral people. Great for your moral upliftment, isn't it bayezid? Did he also tell you of the great moral character your Prophet revealed by marrying his own daughter in law, in his marrying a six year old girl when he was past fifty and his activities with his slave girl Mariya?

The proper idea of Allah which your moral science teacher instilled in your tender mind must have included that fact that He misguides people and then punishes them for it. Did he miss out on that? Then let me correct him:

006.125 YUSUFALI: Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

010.019 YUSUFALI: Mankind was but one nation, but differed (later). Had it not been for a word that went forth before from thy Lord, their differences would have been settled between them.

010.096 YUSUFALI: Those against whom the word of thy Lord hath been verified would not believe-

There are about nearly fifty odd verses in which Allah says He will punish those whom He has misguided.

>>finally, there is no value in following the self's desires.<<

You say this because your moral science teacher must have told you that there is value only in following Allah's desires. You saw the result of such moral science in Mumbai last month. Those Islamically moral boys from the land of your former masters, the land of the pure, Pakistan, were following Allah's desire in:

009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

006.032 YUSUFALI: What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand?

Having read of the promise in 9:111 and Allah's statement that He gave them life for play and amusement and should be discarded for the promise He has given. Those children of your former masters were quick to understand what it is they had to do to wake up in paradise.

>>many great men in the past became fmous for fighting the ego. i suggest you take lessons from them.<<

Infidels do take lessons from people who fought their ego like Gautam Buddha, Mahivira, Gandhi. We refuse to take lessons from people with inflated egos like your prophet. Muhammad taught you that you cannot have faith unless you love him more than your parents and your children. He claimed that he had been given many things denied to other prophets like permission to take booty, intercede on people's behalf with Allah, victory with terror over his enemies etc. You want me to quote the hadith? (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331, Vol 1 Number 14, Vol 9, Bk 89 No 251: )

Nor do we like to follow a god whose ego is bigger than the universe he created and thinks that worshipping anyone or anything else is such a great offence that he will roast us in fire for eternity.

>>so obviosuly GOD isnt there to cater to your ego, your ego and your being is there to cater to GOD.<<

No one asked Allah to cater to our ego. He is the one who created us the way we are, with our egos and other warts. Why is He complaining then?

Regards

Plato

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