inshALLAH ill never stop
Submitted by bayezid (Bangladesh), Jan 3, 2009 at 09:31
if what mr. bayezid says is worth the kafirs commentary, then im sure there certainly is logic present in the arguments posed by mr. bayezid.
Why do you find it a thin line? 'Infidels' certainly don't. "
and thats why they are called kafirs. the thin line i mentioned is the partition that seperates the possibilites we are seeing around us (whihc many would call rational) and the possibilites there exist beyond our knowledge, and also those which can be conceived by the mind vaguely. (the very mention of which earns only sour disapporoval and criticism, and hence coined the term irrational)
a kafir also denies the ORIGINATOR of all possibilities.
There you go again in your arrogance - insulting the generic 'infidels' of your imagination. Who only exist in your imagination. You are dirtying your own nest. Is this what you get taught in the madrassas? The proof is in the pudding - the results from the 'Infidel's infinitesmally small mind ' (made by 'Allah' ) has outstripped the results of Muslim thinking by several factors of ten."
as before, the kafir loses patience and so spews cliches designed as a means of last resort to refuting the muslim opposition. laughable.
besides, strongly insisting on the kafirs intellectual superiority over that of the muslims without any valid proof is further testament of his short temper.
The fact is we live in infinity! And you have a symbolic representation of everything you think you know and are aware of. You comunicate your thoughts in your interior world with other people."
if you do agree we live in infinity with a myriad of so many possibilites, why do you find it hard to believe in the first place that the ORIGINATOR of possibilites can communicate to human beings via a book and a prophet ?
Muslims throw their arms up in the air and say it is all 'Allahs;' will and go on in their fatalistic dreaming. Leaving it to everyone else to make real and significant discoveries in all fields of endeavour, especially but not limted to technology. Tell me, look around your house , along your street - and name anything you see that was invented by Muslims - other than of course burkahs, hejabs and Korans.
thats the idea of the muslim in the kafirs mind actually. therefore this supposition does not hold enough weight. if ALLAH intended muslims to be fatalists, then im sure HE wouldnt have told us to keep trying or to keep striving for the better. and muslims arent inventors. they are simply slaves of ALLAH. and invention need not necessarily bring about the most ideal changes all the time.>>
'Infidels' KNOW 'reality' has everything to offer - that's why you are right now using 'infidel' invented computers and 'infidel' communication networks and for that matter the language of 'infidels' , to vainly try to prove fantasies to other people which you've accepted as reality because of the cultural milieu you've been born into.
Perhaps you could ask 'Allah' to give you an insight into your arrogancefor this new year. Start with a clean slate . The intelligent thing to do would be to admit you don't know everything. Entertain the idea 'what if I'm wrong'? Just silently, quietly to yourself. No one need know, nothing to get embarrassed about. Don't be so prejudiced towards new ideas just because they come from cultures and races you don't approve of."
yet another proof of your temper. not to mention youve swerved way off the point. lol and as for the so called inventions, someone else wouldve probably done it if you people havent. who knows, you couldve stolen from someone too.
wuld you rather talk to me in arabic? thats quite nice of you but its not soemthing your english speaking brain would cope up with. besdies, before the colonial times, you came to us for the learning, and since you couldnt toelrate that, you had to invade our lands and forcibly change the administrative medium from arabic and farsi to english. we were not eager to learn your obscure language back then.
there you go, a little bit of your ancestors achievements.
Can't help being petty can you? "
well let me guess. you call yourself an infidel and you reason with your own bias. i simply pointed out that you couldnt have chosen a better name.
Over 1000 years - they would have been able to detect a slight shift in the position of the star matrix WITHOUT TELESCOPES as seen from earth - had they been able to create and keep accurate records. But they did not. Nobodies fault. Why would you unless you were the keenest of amatuer astronomers?"
and i say it again, i see how you deserve your namesake. detecting slight shifts in galactic alignments with the planets and their relation to the sun in return is not something the human eye detects. i do admire your doggedness to prove a point, but a frantic choice of words to suggest a feat not humanly possible is just unacceptable.
They meant that the sun and planets - when seen from earth trace a roughly circular arc. That is ALL they meant. To claim anything else is to beggar belief. The Arabs NEVER claimed the Sun was travelling on a 220 million year trip around an imaginary point in the centre of the galaxy.
no one cares what the arabs claimed. we were talking about what the quran claims. and the quran claims 1400 years ago that the sun has a spherical orbit. the only time the sun makes an orbit is when its solar apexing. lol. a phenomenon we came to know of recently.
surely, people did not know about the suns spherical path back then. and neither id they know thatthe earth was egg shaped.
>> The real foolhardy claim was for you to suggest that I even thought the Druids were measuring the procession of the Sun around the galactic centre."
"......well, seeing the way you reason, i could not help but at least entertain the thought."
You find common sense threatening?
no i find common sense entertaining, i just find your sense to be quite strange.
Of course they did - when viewed from the earth - it traces a roughly circular arc - the circle becoming larger the closer you are to the poles. They were extremely aware of this phenomenom in high latitudes - Russia's arctic coast, siberia, Sacndinavia, the UK. in fact that's how they were able to accurately predict that these bodies rose and set at different locations at different times of the year. If you've ever spent a night out under the stars - yo should have noticed that the whole sky seems to revolve around and imaginary point - north of you are in the northern hemisphere and south if you are in the southern hemisphere of course. This apparent passage of the stars is circular. The ancients knew that the planets travelled faster than the stars - and thought they had circular orbits.
you said the anceints figured out the circular path of the sun and so tried to use this to neutralize the claim of the quran that the sun pursues a spherical course. but does not that also mean that these highly intelligent and observant ancients also noticed the 'S' shaped path of the moon? yes, thats right, the moon does not seem to move in a sphericl path, but in an 'S' shaped path. notice what ALLAH says ,"It is He Who created night and day and the sun and moon, each one swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 21:33)"
i hope you see what i am getting at. lets consider for a moment that the quran was man's work. so all the phenomena mentioned in it must be a result of observation, yes? ok. so if they were indeed referring to the suns apparent spherical movement as seen from the earth, why dosent the quran mention abt the s shaped path of the moon. instead it says both sun and moon swim in a sphere. sphere.
so clearly, the quran was referring to the actual revolutions made by both the sun and the moon, and not their apparent motion from the earth (which is as a result of the earths rotation). the moon revolves around the earth, the earth revolves around the sun, and the sun revolves in a solar apex. that is the motion of the sun ALLAH is talking about here.
please let me know what you think abt this now in an unbiased and unprejudiced way.
It was common knowledge in the ancient world - especially in northern latitudes that stars described a circular arc around the night sky. The only start that did not was Polaris - which navigators used to indicate north - for thousands of years. Of course people knew astronomcal bodies were in orbits. Allah didn't tell anyone anything they didn't know already in this regard."
again, how anceint are you talking about? because no one figured out that the earth moves around the sun until the sixteenth centruy scientifically. before that people simply thought that the earth was static and things moved around it. let alone the ancients know anything about the movement of the entire solar system itself. they dint even know that earth was included inside the solar system. in fact, your so called ancients did noteven know if the earth was round or not. the accepted view of those times was that the earth was flat.
but ALLAH speaks about the earths rotation in the quran
He created the heavens and the earth with true (wisdom)
In describing the rolling the night over the day the Arabic word, ‘Yukawwar' has been used. It means to coil or to roll on an axis, the word proves the circular movement of a thing. As the day and the night occur on planet Earth, therefore, the word ‘Yukawwar' proves it being globular, and that it is moving on its axis. Further coiling or rolling of a thing happens only on a thing, which has some circular shape. Thus, due to a rolling of the earth on its axis from west to east, continually a part of it gradually faces the sun whereas the other part of it hides from the sun. In this way, day and night are continually happening.
YOu are confusing yourself - it doesn't return to a "critical position which is necessary for the proper functioning of the solar system."
and by that it is simply meant that the sun retains the same line of orbit in relation to the entire solar system. it diligently sticks to its path very much like a monorail. i did not in any way say that in the qurn it is suggestd that the sun moves in a circle inside he solar sphere. the sun, very curiously, maintains the sme distance between the planets and the moons at every cycle in makes. never for once does that go wrong.
"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Qur'an, 36:38)"
the resting place is a rough and narrow translation of the word mustaqarr. this means an appointed place . or a place of finality. a place where itll ultimately go. not a place that it goes to every day.
the solar system is indeed evolving in space towards a point situated in the Constellation of Hercules (alpha lyrae) whose exact location is firmly established; it is moving at a speed already ascertained at something in the region of 12 miles per second.
right, the whole renaissance and islamic spain thing.
In your desperation to prove you are right you are now making false statements. Knowledge from ancient Greece and Rome was preserved in many locations throughout Europe and Russia in the Middle Ages."
lets find out then shall we ,
this time i will not waste my breath in this senseless prattle about an established fact. since youre fond of wikipeida, and so am i, lets go there and have a look see.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (891) on this item
Comment on this item
You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes