2 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Sunny: You imagination is running wild!

Reader comment on item: Still Asleep After Mumbai
in response to reader comment: Plato agrees Worshiping idols or having Partners with Allah is Sin

Submitted by Plato (India), Apr 1, 2009 at 07:56

Sunny: You imagination is running wild!

Sunny you write:

>>So you agree having partners with Allah (idol worship) is Sin. Allah is merciful , It is upto Allah to forgive you.
But when you have agreed that, is sin , it is better to refrain from it and ask for forgiveness.

How nice, putting words in my mouth. Below I have given the corny logic you used in your first post to justify Allah being furious at His creatures setting up partners with Him:

Your father can forgive anything your mother does, But cannot forgive having partner with him !
So what's a big deal if your mother sleeps with somebody

And this was my reply:

And you must know that in Islam your mother has to forgive your father for having multiple partners. So if mothers are required to forgive their husbands for setting up multiple partners why not Allah? Is forgiveness not a heavenly quality?

By what Islamic logic did you come to the conclusion that I am agreeing that idol worship is a sin? I eagerly await your reasoning for coming to this conclusion. I will correct the way I word my sentences so that no one will mistake me for being partial to Allah or any god for that matter.

Read what I have now underlined of my reply. It is Islam that expects women to forgive (do they have a choice?) their husbands for having sex with multiple partners (like worshipping multiple gods – LOL). This seems to be your logic: Men will not forgive wives for taking multiple partners. By analogy (by equating sex with worship) you claim that the Father in heaven will also not forgive humans setting up partners with Him.

I showed you that in Islam men are allowed to take multiple sex partners and there is no sin it. So by your analogy, using mothers instead of fathers, we can set up partners with Allah and worship them. QED.

>>report:
Saudi Arabia is now the world's largest producer of desalinated water with desalination meeting 70% of the country's present drinking water requirement and supplying major urban and industrial centres through a network of water pipes which run for more than 2,300 miles.

So with their economy, they can generate drinking water from sea.<<

I had written: " Show us when When Allah has responded to muslim pleas" and your response:

>>Allah has already responded to muslim pleas long back by making the whole world dependent for Muslim oil !<<

I responded: Muslims have prayers for rain (even the Prophet prayed for rain) not for oil. The Arabs still pray for it. Muslims got oil not rain. Allah knows best? And the oil is going to run out soon, maybe 2050, lasting only about 200 years. The rains will not. Rains began billions of years ago and there is no end in sight.

You had claimed that Allah had answered Muslim prayers by giving them oil. Interestingly Muslims had never prayed for oil as they did not even know it existed under their feet till the kaffirs told them about it and extracted it for them using infidel technology. But Arabs still pray for rain and have prayed for rain since the Prophet's time and very little good it has done. Again to get water the Arabs have had to approach the infidels and buy their technology to desalinate sea water.

Allah could at least have told them how to get potable water from the sea. Even the network of pipes taking water to the interior would have been designed and probably even supplied by infidels. Allah tells Muslims to go get whatever they want from the kaffirs. In the old days Muslims just invaded the kaffirs and took whatever took their fancy (including women as sex slaves) on the authority of Allah:

008.069 YUSUFALI: But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Now the infidels make you pay a fair price for what you want with what Allah has put under your feet. LOL

>>These Arab muslims do have to
depend on rains, which may fail in any part of the world.<<

Rains fail once in a while in infidel countries but most Arab Muslim countries have no rain to speak of despite all their prayers. The only known incident when Muslim prayers for rain were answered was during the prophet's time:

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 13, Number 55:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Once in the lifetime of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) the people were afflicted with drought (famine). While the Prophet was delivering the Khutba on a Friday, a Bedouin stood up and said, "O, Allah's Apostle! Our possessions are being destroyed and the children are hungry; Please invoke Allah (for rain)". So the Prophet raised his hands. At that time there was not a trace of cloud in the sky. By Him in Whose Hands my soul is as soon as he lowered his hands, clouds gathered like mountains, and before he got down from the pulpit, I saw the rain falling on the beard of the Prophet. It rained that day, the next day, the third day, the fourth day till the next Friday. The same Bedouin or another man stood up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! The houses have collapsed, our possessions and livestock have been drowned; Please invoke Allah (to protect us)". So the Prophet I raised both his hands and said, "O Allah! Round about us and not on us". So, in whatever direction he pointed with his hands, the clouds dispersed and cleared away, and Medina's (sky) became clear as a hole in between the clouds. The valley of Qanat remained flooded, for one month, none came from outside but talked about the abundant rain.

Wonderful story, won't you agree, Sunny. Only the prophet's prayers did more harm than good so he had to instruct Allah to keep the rains away from Medina!

Does this hadith bring a smiled to your lips, Sunny

>>Here is the verse from Al quran:

"And whoever fears Allah, for him Allah brings forth a way out, and gives him provision (rizq) from where he does not even imagine…" (Surah At-Talaq: 2/3)<<

You seem to have forgotten that one must not quote verses out of context. At least that is what Muslims always say when an inconvenient verse is brought to their notice. Let us see how you manipulated Allah's words to suit your purpose. Read the four verses together and figure out what this verse is referring to:

065.001
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah: and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.

065.002 YUSUFALI: Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,
065.003 YUSUFALI: And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is (Allah) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.
065.004 YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

65:3 when read together with 65:1, 65:2 and 65:4 now looks out of place. So clearly it seems to be an interpolation or the original editors of the Koran not knowing where to place it dumped it here.

The charitable interpretation would be that Allah is telling His favourite people, men, that if they are unhappy with their wives and divorce them they need not fear, there are more women out there and Allah will provide them to you (as slave girls from war booty?).

It seems that by trying to equate this verse with Allah promising His faithful a way out of all problems, including scarcity of water, your imagination has got the better of you or else you picked it out of the context of divorce to suit your purpose.

Regards

Plato

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Sunny: You imagination is running wild! by Plato

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)