Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Dec 26, 2008 at 01:53
Mr. Bayezid writes:
You've forgotten already?
"oh i see, so it had the space faring ability to actually see the movemet of the sun. .my my. i dint know nasa existed back then"
Both of these places are made from stones set up in precise alignments to mark out the passage of the sun through the years. I thought that was quite clear. No one has made the claim that they had 'space faring abilities'. Space faring abilities arrived much later due to the work of their Infdel decendants.
"the motion of the sun they were talking about is the one in relation to earth. its the earth that revolved round the sun and it appers to us that the sun moves.thats the motion these people were talking about. they werent talking about the solar apex , the path along which the sun itself revolves with all its planetary bodies along with it. you failed to realize that the sun moves with the entire solar system, and not detached from it."
hint - this is what we learn in 2nd year school science; no need to explain the obvious - it makes you sound patronising...
"clearly, being the inhabitant of a palnet around the sun, you couldnt really tell if the entire solar system made a revolution, since youre moving along with it. "
So the Koran states that the Sun has made over 200 revolutions around the galactic centre?
"and neither could your primitive druid ancestors. "
you should drop your ethnocentric , racial and cultural biases for just long enough to appreciate that very little is actually known of the Druids which you've used as an example. Anglo-Saxon people do not necessaily descend from Druids. And casting them as primitive is hardly the position you should be taking. If Islamic BanglaDesh had such enlightened forebears - what the hell happened????
"the stonehenge merely served as a calaender and not the hubble telescope. but hey dont give your ancestors all the credit, the indians had calendars like this and so did the incas. and BUNJIL knows who else. lol."
You've left out the Chinese and many others but, yes, other cultures were far more advanced scientifically than the early Muslims. I totally agree.
".....please inform your friend plato of it, since you are all making such a concerted effort against my explanations. i must say im really honored."
The honour is misplaced. There is no concerted effort against you, an individual. Different people write in response to absurd statements from any individuals. Do not take it personally, it would not matter who made them. In short - you set yourself up for such 'honour'.
" you hve left behind what ALLAH has spoken about the creation and planets and nature in the quran 1400 years ago and instead resorted to a figurative explanation of the great prophet in a single hadith."
It's OK to use that hadith is it not? Nothing to hide is there?
"......sure the prophet couldve explained such a complex build of the planet the way you said, "
I said that he could have simply said the earth "was a globe spinning in space held in place by unseen forces"
What is the complex bit?
If you read what I wrote - my proposition ( which took a second to construct ) was MUCH simpler than the preposterous story of :
"Allah has placed this seven-layered, huge earth on the horn of a cow. This cow has four thousand such horns, and the distance from one horn to another is a journey of five hundred years. This gigantic cow is standing on the back of a giant fish. This fish is floating on glutinous water; the depth of this water is the distance of a journey of forty years. The glutinous water is resting on floating air. This air or atmosphere is resting on darkness. The darkness rests upon the Hell and that Hell is placed on a massive stone. This massive stone is resting on the head of an enormous Farishta (angel); the Farishta is standing on wind and the wind is resting on the empty world of Allah's Kudrat (glory)."
you continue, saying
"...but it would really raise more questions even by the simple mind of the questioning arab. what were those forces like?"
But now the poor arab is even more confused - hecan ask questions about the cow - what does it eat, what does it breathe, what was it standing on before it was standing on the back of the fish; how does it stay adhered to the back of the fish as it swims along; why is the fish always swimming just nder the surface - or can the cow breathe underwatre too?;how can glutinous water float on air, how can all this rest on darkness .... ad infinitum.
I guess the poor arabs just became confused and gave up on the questions.
So whose explanation is more simple?
"so this proves how ignorant and backward we are in thinking compared to even 7th centuy arabia."
you are kidding, right?
"....so the magic word is ....... metaphors."
how is a cow with 4,000 horns , the giant fish etc etc a metaphor for anything?
"you are trying to build your case using what some ignorant village muslims did in the uk . "
It's a very, very easy case to build - and not just in the UK.
Village Muslims (do you common or garden variety?) as distinct from what?
"you shouldve at least saved yourself the criticism by assuming that that msulims guilty of that act was a ignorant, unaware muslim. and speaking of abuse, your uk statistics show that non muslim women in the uk are battered and bruised on a daily basis by their european boyfriends or husbands."
I'm sure in a city of 8 million people you may read one case of a man battering his partner. We have an open press. But we also have laws that charge people with this crime.
"..so you should watch where the allegations are coming from. the women in uk say that they are even afraid to walk alone in the subways or the streets. thats how serious it is for you. and thats abuse. defined in the very heartland of modern european culture. ill give you some time to reel from this."
No one is reeling from anything. All you've done is made the statement that some individuals commit some crimes in western societies. I think we know that. Why is it some sort of revelation for you?
"but for you in europe and america, whats makin you act like such apes? you have technology. life is easy for you. why do people still mistreat women in your coutries. its just that you are good at hiding them. what reason do you have to be barbaric?"
Nearly all crimes are reported in western countries - as they are required to be - they are not hidden as you state. Police statistics are a matter of public record. So you get the honest facts.
As distinct from Islamic countries - most with third world copies of western institutions - which either do not report or under-report various crimes.Your overactive imagination pictures streets in western cities as hotbeds of crime, night after night. They are not at all. But I do not expect you to have that insight.
It is true and probably sadly disappointing for you but we do not stone women to death for adultery or kill people or imprison them for changing from one religion to another - or whip them for drinking alcohol or chop off their hands for stealing.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (892) on this item
Comment on this item
Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes