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The books of the Greeks and the pipeline and the destruction of the great cities of Hellenism by Muslims

Reader comment on item: Islam vs. History
in response to reader comment: reply to DNM

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 13, 2012 at 07:01

As I say half knowledge is a disaster and here is a case in point

1 Historical discontinuity,see my posts destruction parts 1 and 2

So what is historical continuity vs. discontinuity and why does your so called prophet proposes the concept of al-jahiliyya to explain what really happened in early Islam which is a fraudulent concept that cannot be supported by the historical evidence

2 Consensus is that the library was destroyed during an anti pagan riot by a Christian mob who had the Roman power behind them.The Muslim claim looks like a propaganda piece, a construct made up years later.

Oh darn it so were the Muslim historians a bunch of liars? a yes or no will do

So were they a bunch of liars and it seems that you are saying that they were so I must conclude that there is no reason for us to believe Muslim historians that tell us that a certain Arabian warlord and caravan raider spoke to an Arabian deity via an angel right?

3 Whoever did the translations of ancient texts it was done under Muslim administration with Muslim funds to address the curiosity of Muslim intelligentsia which is a healthy thing and the world at large gained from it.Golden age of Islamic discourse was in the early Abbasid period especially under Calif Mamun.Scholars such as Avicinna,Averroes Farabi etc.flourished.These scholars whom the Islamists are proud of never made the ordinary curruculum of the madrassahs.It is asif the Cambridge University never mentioned Newton.With the needs of a large Empire to control a reaction to free thinking emerged at 12th century spearheaded by AL Ghazali.Averroes was spat at as he sat on the steps of a mosque in Andalus,but he still continued to write. I venture to guess had these philosophers lived today and published their books in Saudi or Pakistan they would find life a bit difficult.

So where did these books come from? and as you shall see this very much link with the library of Alexandria and its fate

For the readers: Go and check in your library in the Loeb Classical Library "Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos" and you will find that the earliest version we have is Arabic translation of the book by Hunein Ibn Ishaq who was a Nestorian Christian and he was not Muslim as Muslims were never interested in books plus they did not care to learn neither Greek or Syriac! Desturction, war, enslaving, looting and killing that was a different story and this is what they were interested in. This book was translated from Greek to Syriac and then to Arabic and it was translated at Dar al-Hikma in Baghdad in the time of al-Khalifa al-Ma'muun and this was done in the 9th century CE which means that the Greek books were in circulation in the 9th century CE but the pipe line of Greek education was destroyed by the Arabs who ruined the great centers of Hellensim as in the case of Alexandria so you see our dear Mozere the books existed but it was the Arabs that destroyed the source of this learning and to add insult to injury the value of the Greek language as the language of education was lost to places like Egypt where the Greek language was a dead language by the 9th century so what is the value of having such books in a place where no one was able to read these books in their original language. And this is why I told you about idioms and ideology and iconclasm now do you get it?

Even the one who paid for these translations was not an Arab he was a cultured Persian and that is al-Khalifa al-Ma'muun! The Arab barbarains cared less about books or learning and even those that read these translations were not Arabs the likes of Ibn Sina and those that translated these books from Arabic to Catalan and then to Latin were Jews that lived in Spain!

And indeed the great German historian Becker is very correct in his celebrated conclusion: Without Alexander the great there would have been no islamic civilization

It means that the concept of al-jahliyya proposed by your so called Allah and his so called prophet is bogus

So you see it was islam and the arabs that destroyed the Greek learning and it was not the burning of books in a certain library that led to this collapse

So I can oly blame the Arab invasion for the collapse of Hellenism and learning in places like Alexandria? The burning of books? You still had books as in this case in distant places like Baghdad

Now do you get it?

4 Ancient monuments in the Byzantine Empire was a source of building materials.The citadel in my hometown of Ankara was built by the Byzantines in its walls you can clearly see reused marble pieces with Latin and Greek inscriptions.

And?

5 Hagia Sophia in Istanbul is a museum and it is well looked after.I refer you to a book titled Salonica city of ghosts by Mark Mazower and I quote after the fall of Salonica "the municipality decided almost immediately to demolish the cities minarets...the demolishing followed the pattern set over the past century in the Balkans where the departure of Muslims was often followed swiftly by the destruction of their places of worship".

Then give it back to its owners the Greeks

6 concerning China and India:Ihave no religious axes to grind.I neverquote dogma and never use religious scripts as a reference to ake a point.I will not defend the indefensible.My pointis to destroy the holier than thou attitude of some Christian commentators who think christians never commit despicable acts and only Islam is to blame.

But you see our dear Mozere this thread is about Islam vs History and if the topic was Christianity vs History then you make a good point so spare me this one

You say 90 million Hindus were slaughtered you are right to lament this.

And 1.5M Armenains and 1-2M Greeks your own ancestors were killed in cold blood by the monsters the Turks

This was the human nature,it was power politics every nation did it then.Indians were too fragmented to defend themselves,

So they go out and kill 90M? really? are you for real?

they should have got rid of their cast system and united.

It is non of your business what they do or do not do and as a matter of fact even islam in India there is caste system (Gasp!) so you see in this case we have things being worked by Muslims backwards and even Muslims today in let us say Wahhabi land Indian Muslims and Pakistanis are regarded by the wahhabis as second class Muslims and no more

Soon after this the Mongols killed millions of Muslims and leveled the country side,their horsemen were better than ours.The Spanish obliterated a continent full of Aztecs Mayas and Incas,their technology was better.Only 70 years ago millions of people died in Europe including children.All I am saying is we should grow out of this bloodlust.You cannot keep on blaming Muslims look at the greed for oil. It was Reagan administration who funded and encouraged the extremists to contain the Soviets.

Do me a favor and stick to islam vs. History

7 Asoka ,prince of India became a Buddhist after the battle of Kalinga,he was sick of bloodshed.This shows the Indians were quite capable of killing each other without outside help.Demise of Buddhism in India has many causes ,you cannot tie it down to Islam.After all Hindus survived and they did very well under Akbar. Maybe the cast system played a part,as Buddhists were against it and thus eliminated by the Brahmins

So would this justify killing 90M Hindus? you tell me

.A lot of Indians converted to Islam to escape the despicable caste system, under Islam they found brotherhood and dignity.

Where is the historical evidence? you tell me

Submitting....

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