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Ben Othman: Take dhimmi no more's advice and liberate yourself from Islam

Reader comment on item: Friendless in the Middle East
in response to reader comment: MESSAGE OF ISLAM IS TO ALL NATIONS

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 11, 2012 at 10:32

Ben Othman you wrote:

>>…I was busy helping our Dakwah Movement explaining Islam to your fellow co religionists of diverse races Please note .that none of the Lost Sheep of Israel ( the Christians and Catholics and christians ) - are Jews.(Bani Israel ) That's odd.!!<<

What makes you think that 'Dakwah' (I presume you mean Da'wah) is any use, for Allah says:

002.006 YUSUFALI: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe. (Also 002:007, 2:010)

Allah is telling the Prophet himself that it is no his warning unbelievers. What makes you think you can do a better job of warning?

>>God's instruction on dealing with people like you

PLEASE READ 16:125 "Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided"….

…Maybe, God Willing, you will be guided and you are being guided now. You will never know until you breathe your last breath. There is no proof that God does not Want you to submit to Him, to be a Muslim.<<

Othman read this where the way of the Lord is not about inviting to Islam but enforcing His will :

058.021 YUSUFALI: Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail": For Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will

If as Allah claims He is full of strength and able to enforce His Will why this need to invite people to the way of the Lord? If Allah really wishes all to be Muslim all He has to do is say 'Be' and it will be:

002.117 YUSUFALI: To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.

Your Allah is proving that His claim in 2:117 is false. He is powerless to enforce His will for all humans to submit to Him. This sorry Being who calls Himself all-powerful is then reduced to offering bribes (to those who are attracted by physical pleasures) in the form of houris, boys like pearls, and milk and honey in an imaginary afterlife to induce people to follow His prophet. When even bribes fail he threatens with eternal torture (for weak-minded people who are terrified of pain).

The pleasures on offer by Allah for submission to Him, for males only:

038.052 And beside them will be chaste women restraining their glances, (companions) of equal age.

055.070 In them will be fair (Companions), good, beautiful;-

055.072 -75 Companions restrained (as to their glances), in (goodly) pavilions;-
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?-
Whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;-
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?-

056.035 -38 We have created (their Companions) of special creation. And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), - Beloved (by nature), equal in age,- For the Companions of the Right Hand.
078.032 -34YUSUFALI: Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; And voluptuous women of equal age; And a cup full (to the brim).

Here are some of Allah's threats to the weak-kneed (but I wonder whether Allah has taken into consideration the masochists among His creation who would find these tortures alluring and become bad boys):

004.056 YUSUFALI: Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

003.055 YUSUFALI: "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

014.017 YUSUFALI: In gulps will he sip it, but never will he be near swallowing it down his throat: death will come to him from every quarter, yet will he not die: and in front of him will be a chastisement unrelenting.

014.050 YUSUFALI: Their garments of liquid pitch, and their faces covered with Fire;

Ben Othman such bribes and threats will only convince the weak-minded who have abdicated their responsibility to think for themselves.

>>PLEASE READ

3:110"You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah . If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient."<<

If 'you are the best nation' refers to Arabs then their condition today shows Allah's choice as an example for mankind is very curious. They are helpless against a puny nation like Israel. And if He meant all Muslim lands, then it gets worse as most Muslim lands are grovelling in poverty, illiteracy, ignorance, violence and more, living in denial of their condition. If this is the best Allah can come with as an example for mankind is it any wonder that there are few takers from among the infidels?

>> MY COMMENT I pray that you are amongst the believers<<

At the risk of speaking for him without his permission, I am sure DNM would not want your prayers to come true.

>>YOUR ISSUES: YOUR SILLY GUESS THAT QURAN, ISLAM AND MUHAMMAD SALLAHU ALAYHI WASSALAM ARE ONLY FOR THE ARABS ?? YOU QUOTED 14:4

"And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them…….., '

Which you gleefully concluded that is for the Arabs only.What naivety and shallowness.<<

The verse does say: "we did not send any messenger except in the language of his people…" It does not require much intelligence to realise that Allah is saying that an Arab prophet for Arabs, Persian for Persians, Greek for Greeks, Chinese for Chinese etc. Why would these language groups believe Muhammad is their prophet too after reading this verse?

You then right away quote 7:158 and 21:107 which contradicts 14:4. Cannot Allah make up His mind?

Your oh-so-clever ulema have come up with the argument that the prophets sent to non-Arabs were disobeyed and their messages corrupted. This argument falls flat because the Koran itself claims that Allah's word cannot be corrupted. And if it can be corrupted or lost umpteen times then where is the guarantee that this Koran is itself is not corrupted and could be lost in future?

Not only did mortals change and corrupt Allah's word but Allah Himself corrupts His word.

Allah acknowledges that people did change His word:

007.162 YUSUFALI: But the transgressors among them changed the word from that which had been given them so we sent on them a plague from heaven. For that they repeatedly transgressed.

Then He contradicts this and says 'none can change His word'.

6:115 YUSUFALI: The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

In another place having forgotten His claim to know the future but showing that He does not know His own mind says:

002.106 YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

016.101 YUSUFALI: When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

>>MY COMMENTS: NOW , Since every Divine Writ was meant to be understood by men, it is obvious that each had to be formulated in the language of the people whom the particular prophet was sent to address. <<

This was a logical decision by Allah i.e. to send messengers who spoke the native language lest the message be misunderstood.

>>Al Quran is no exception.<<

If you had removed the 'no', then your later comment would have made some sense. Because you say later that the Koran is for everyone and for all time and not just for the Arabs even though Allah is contradicting His previous statement in 14:4 .

>>It is Arabic , written in the Arabic of the Quraysh but the message is of universal import , with no time bound or confined to any particular environment unlike the Taurat (Old Testament ) for Jews under Moses (Alayhi salam ) and Injeel by Jesus (Alayhi salam ) (New Testament sent to guide the Lost Sheep of Israel-Mathew 15 ) which were sent to specific people- i.e the Jews and in they were in Ibrani.<<

Here Allah has lost his rational mind. In frustration at non-Arabs fooling around with his message He sends a final message to an Arab and his followers with the contract to spread it around the world:

009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

In the above verse Muslims have been contracted to fight for Allah for which He gives a BINDING promise of heaven. Allah seems to have a poor opinion of His followers loyalty to Him because He has to give them a BINDING promise of heaven to believe and fight for Him.

>>The Quran's universality is in its "<<:

>>1)acceptance by people irrespective of creed , race and descent<<

You must be joking. With more than 75 per cent of humanity refusing to accept Islam your claim makes little sense.

>>2)Marked by the emphasis on reasoning and not on blind faith or dogma<<

Read the following three verses. Do they sound as though Allah is asking you to use your reason?

002.003 YUSUFALI: Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them; The Koran also admonishes those who dispute it:

This is the Koran asking you to just believe, DON'T REASON!

005.101 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.

As the saying goes: "Ask no questions and you will be told no lies".

005.102 Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.

The verse above puts the lid on Muslims daring to think for themselves. Which Muslim wants to lose his faith?

The all-knowing Allah (aka Muhammad) knows that if people probe deeper into His faith they would know the falsehoods on which they were built.

>>3) It has not been changed since its revelation 1400 years ago.<<

So what? Aesop's fables have not changed for 2000 years. The silly rhyme 'Humpty dumpty sat on a wall…' has not changed for generations. Does that make them divine?

>>The Hejazi Arabs, then the Najd and then the other tribes all of Arabia and then the whole Arabic world including the ex Christians Ghassanid and Najrani. all embraced this Message based on simple belief on the Unicity of God.<<

Read your Muslim historians, Othman. The tribes of Arabia turned against Islam the moment Mohammed died. Abu Bakr had to stage long bloody wars to make them submit to the sword of Islam all over again.

>>True to God's planning, the Arabs were the vehicle that propelled the message of Islam to the far corners of the globe.<<

Allah's plan is very evident in 9:111 quoted above and 9:29 below:

009.029 YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The basic message is accept Muhammad's religion or pay the humiliation tax jizia or face death.

>>It came to Nusantara-the Malay Archipelago (now Indonesia , Malaysia, Brunei, Philippines ) a region of 300 million people through the message of reasoning that made my people rejected AND LEFT Hindusm, Buddhism and REJECTED Christianity. There were NO MUSLIM ARMIES NOR ARMADA converting my people.The Christians tried to force us into Christianity and failed miserably.<<

You escaped from the might of the Arab sword because of your location. So they did the next best thing. Bring you Islam by stealth. Your unfortunate forefathers, who in all probability were jungle dwelling tribes, were possibly convinced by the blandishments of houris and rivers of honey if they accepted Islam. Just as the Polynesians and other island dwelling people were convinced by the Christian fathers without taking the sword to them as they did in the Americas. Perhaps this is cheaper than fitting out an armada to do the job.

Contrast this with what happened in India, which is within sword's reach of Arabia. Sixty million people are believed to have died in the effort to Islamise the land. Read what Will Durant the well-known historian has to say about it:

"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."

>>So, next time get your facts right, yes all your statements right before childishly jumping to your wrong conclusions showing others who you really are,<<

Bertrand Russel has got some fact about Islam which may interest you:

"Over a billion people believe in Allah without truly knowing what Allah supposedly stands for or what he really demands of them. And the minority that do understand continue to be Moslems because they have redefined their morality and ethics to fit within the teachings of Islam, which are floridly lacking in morality. They therefore redefine what is good and evil in order to fit their lives into what is preached by Islam, instead of examining Islam to see if it fits within the good life. Backwards thinking, imposed by a backward religion".

As for yourself Ben Othman, do you really know what Allah demands of you? Try and get out of the backwards thinking imposed on you by the backward religion, Islam.

>>Bye- Be a Muslim.Soon.<<

Let me leave with the thought of a French thinker, Earnest Renan, before saying bye-bye. It tells you why dhimmi no more thinks of you as a victim of Arabian imperialism:

"Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of this religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him".

Ben Othman, liberate yourself from Arabian imperialism and be free again, as DNM has been telling you.

Regards

Plato

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