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19-D goggles

Reader comment on item: Musing on History
in response to reader comment: hard to explain.

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Jan 8, 2016 at 02:55

Hopeless, Moh :( Anyhow, thanks for posting. You gave it a fair go.

Tell me, do you take the Bible at all seriously? As far as Daniel's blog is concerned, I believe it has value because the events of today seem to correlate with a timeline given in the Book of Revelation. I've discussed these matters online here with M. Tovey, presumably a fellow "believer" with me; but if you've followed any of our exchanges, you can see that the term "believer" needs to be taken with a grain of salt: He believes that Jesus is the promised Messiah, as do I; and this is critical for our eternal relationship with each other, with Jesus and with God. Other than that core belief, however, we seem to agree on little -- including on the timeline that I think is so valuable.

Are you willing to go a round with me on the timeline? The pertinent scriptures are not about salvation, nor about personally being acceptable to God. They speak, as I said, about a timeline of things to come; and I can't say that they require any special discernment. What one needs, in order to understand them, are:

1. They speak of events in the 20th and 21st Centuries; so it was impossible to properly understand them before that time.

2. The message was conveyed to John in about 95 AD; so some 20th Century phenomena, such as gunpowder, hydrogen bombs, air and water pollution, etc. had to be expressed in ideographical form, and

3. John was "in the spirit" when he saw these things -- i.e., in a different sort of place from the visible world. It's a very real world, but invisible to us in this world; and the "laws of physics", as we understand them here, do not apply there. You seem to be relatively facile in making the transform.

That world John was in, was/is quite apart from our everyday experience, yet linked to it. For instance, let me cite an example from a scene in the "New Jerusalem":

Rev. 21:
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband...

[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...

Rev. 22:
[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
[2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Some scholars have gotten their panties all atwist, trying to decipher that; so I'll go slowly:

First of all, notice where John is: He's not on this present earth, nor in this present universe ("heaven" + "earth", taken together, means "universe"). This "New Jerusalem", then, does not come out of the sky (literally, the "heaven") that we know of: It comes out of the NEW sky, in the NEW universe: The laws of physics do not apply there, our current time/space does not apply there, etc. Nevertheless, everything about is "real" to John because, being as he is, in the spirit, things that are invisible to us here are visible to him; and things which are real and pertinent to us here are "passed away" in the world he is in.

I don't imagine you will have much trouble understanding the above. Now, we can move on to the matter of the river, the "tree" (singular) which grows simultaneously on either side of the street/river (the one somehow blends into the other); the twelve different crops of fruit growing on it, a new crop every month, and -- I said all that to say this -- the leaves.

The leaves on the tree are/were for the "healing of the nations" -- or, properly translating the passage, the "healing of the gentiles".

Read that, and tell me if you don't see some sort of "time warp" happening here. Who are these "gentiles", these "nations" in this new world, who are somehow in need of "healing"? My understanding, is that the gentiles referred to are gentiles ON EARTH, this earth, terra firma, in our present universe; and that somehow those leaves on that tree in the new universe can be accessed by us here.

There are other passages, such as the battle between Michael (a title of Messiah) and the Dragon in heaven that happens simultaneously with a battle between the "body of Christ" (the church) and the minions of the Evil One here in this world. The only analogy I can think of, is the movie "The Matrix"; though that's a very imperfect analogy. Still, it's close enough to convey the idea of connection between our present "reality" and the more "real" reality that John was experiencing.

I'm just saying this all as background, because it makes some passages in the "timeline" easier to understand.

Have you got your 19-D goggles on? Are you ready to roll with me on this one? Or are you convinced that I'm lost somewhere behind Hale Bopp?

Shalom shalom

Michael :-)

Submitting....

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