69 million page views

Heaven or Hell Not a Question of Human Secular Logic-Heaven is Not a Secular Place

Reader comment on item: Islamist Turkey vs. Secular Iran?
in response to reader comment: A reply to Mr. Tovey

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Jan 10, 2011 at 19:32

Let us approach this from, hopefully, a generic and unbiased perspective. 'Secular' by my definition is that which is relating to the worldly or temporal: that is non-ecclesiastical or cleric. If we were to characterize the process that is happening, say in America, where the efforts to separate government from ecclesiastical overtones, it would (and does to many) mean secularization of the government. In the reverse, if one were to look at the implementation of Shari'a law in the Muslim context, the reverse would be true.

Only in political obstinance does one characterize a process of 'secularization' as specifically a pro-United States stance, since France, a secularized nation for quite some time has decidedly anti-US posturing. We can say the same about Turkey in its current state, though the process of Islamization may change that in the near future.

In 1979, I had no political observances to make about the defeat of the Pahlavi regime, except that a fellow that I once knew back then was definitely anti-Shah for the various reasons you have specified. I am sure he was elated when the Ayatollah returned and imposed Islam on Iran in a reversal to 'secularization.'

Now let us proceed to your question. I will first answer in a non-theological perspective, for it is in that vein of thinking that I believe so many have a difficult time trying to understand why Israel seems to get all the breaks, while the rest of the world cannot seem to get their collective act together. Oh, I'm sorry, this is not a really good way to handle that, for the world is at odds with itself because it so badly wants to be secular, and for reasons many do not understand, it cannot.

The Hebrew Holy Bible treats ANY ruler that is out of touch and 'sync' with the Biblical imperatives in the exact same way. Follow Almighty God in His directives and prosper according to His WORD. The world's history is littered with empires, regimes, kingdoms and nations that tried to go against the WORD of the LORD, and failed. The Pahlavi regime is a classic modern day example. Add to that the Ottoman's, the Khosroes of Iranian/Persian history, the Greeks, and let us not forget the Romans, just to name a few. Another modern-day example would be trying to remember how big Great Britain used to be-and how India was compelled to learn English. America is not immune either, for just after Israel ceded Gaza, it is my belief that America took its hit in New Orleans.

Now before we get the idea that Israel is really basking in the lap of luxury, examine the Hebrew Holy Bible and find out they are not out of the woods yet, no matter what kind of help they think might be coming from America. Were they experiencing a peace for all time in this day and age, they would not be looking for ways to thwart the plans of those that would 'wipe Israel off the map!'

Next, I am exactly as you are, for if it is not plain yet, I do have a bias toward being true to Biblical truth, just as you seem to oppose it. For me, it is inescapable, overpowering and completely in my mind as the only way to live in this maniacal existence we call the human condition. Why, you might ask? Well, you have asked that question, sort of, but you have not listened. You keep asking peripheral questions that skirt the central issues, and from this perspective can never get the answer you need.

Do I think the Shah of Iran is liable to go to heaven or hell based on his actions, whether he killed, had others killed, or had a nominally pro-Israel stance in the political arena? None of these are specific reasons to determine whether he went to hell or not. David, beloved King of Israel in ancient times was guilty as much, if not more than Reza, yet David was not judged for those offences. It is recorded of him that he loved Almighty God and looked forward to prophecies of the Messiah. That's what the Bible says was the reason he will be in heaven. Did Pahlavi have a relationship with Jesus Christ? Answer that and you will have a clue as to whether or not he was received in heaven. I do not know the answer to that one: no one has ever revealed that publically to my knowledge.

Coming back to your primary bone of contention, the 'evangelical' you seem to want to vilify is not a person you understand very well. I am not surprised; for many claiming to be evangelical today are imposters to the faith, doing so to confuse people that do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is their intent to lead any astray that they can in order to accomplish one thing-to try and see if they can frustrate the plan of Almighty God. Using Israel as a foil is one of the many tactics. A true evangelical that has a faith relationship will Jesus Christ does not presume to dictate to Almighty God the plan that is, has been and always will be Almighty God's to perform. Do we think that mere humans can obstruct Almighty God and get away with it? Seriously, it's not going to happen; not in this lifetime and definitely never in the next one.

Using arguments of the failed actions of people of questionable character is another way to obstruct the process of truth. But this fails also for Almighty God sees past all of the frustrated plans of mice and men. Getting to know His plan is the only way I know how to answer even the most difficult things that confront mankind.

So to recap: secular is the way the world wants it, but will never fully achieve. The former Soviet Union was secular, did NOT support Israel, and we all saw how that worked out for them. Do we need to recount the exploits of the Nationalist Socialist regime of Germany and their liaisons with the Mufti's of Jerusalem to examine their failure? We mentioned Turkey earlier as being secularized under Attatűrk, and the efforts to return to a previous state of Islamic influences is something the world needs to watch out for, since what happens to Turkey is Biblical.

Has this been concise enough? Let me know. We can work on this a little longer; but remember that time is running out. I was where you were with all the questions thirty plus years ago, and that did not work out until I took the Hebrew Holy Bible to heart and it answers ALL my questions. No wonder, for Jesus Christ promised it would be that way, and it is!


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)